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Dvd Video Space Is Not Accurate.


giama

Question

I'm making a compilation DVD-video with several VOB files with menu buttons that I want to burn it to a DVD-DL.

 

I have the encoding set as automatic, which tells me my DVD size will be 7.90 GB with 57.9MB remaining. When I save as disc image, however, the file size is much larger than I was told at 9.33 GB which obviously won't fit on my dual-layer DVD.

 

So I tried setting the "Encoding" option to "Custom" which defaults to MPEG-2, 4.0 Mbps (8.0 Mbps max) and Dolby Digital at 192 kbps. This immediately tells me my new disc image size will be 5.96 GB with 2 GB space remaining which should certainly fit on a DVD-DL. But when I go to save as disc image, the same size of 9.33 GB is made. It appears that the Custom Encoding option is not working properly and is not accurately telling me what the disc image size will be.

 

I then tried to change some additional options like lowering the maximum bit rate to 7.5 Mbps (from 8.0 Mbps) and also selecting the "Dynamic Range Compression." This still tells my disc image will be 5.96 GB. When I burn a disc image again, it is the same 9.33 GB size. I also lowered max bit rate to 7.0 Mbps and it still makes the SAME size DVD image (9.33 GB).

 

In other words, the disc image size Toast tells you is NOT what it will encode to and it doesn't seem to matter what changes I make in the Custom Encoding options window. It still makes the same size disc image. What's going on here?

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Any ideas how I can upgrade my firmware on my Mac.

You might check the DVD F.A.Q at xlr8yourmac.com to learn if someone developed a tool to update firmware on that drive the way they did with Pioneer drives. Otherwise you'll need to take your drive to some friend who has a PC.

 

Do you know how to be more exact in changing the video graphic thumbnail for each menu button rather than simply clicking and dragging the scrub bar to where I want it? The problem with this is it doesn't let me scrub as fine as I like to select the EXACT frame I want. How does one do this more precisely?

It isn't possible. MPEG 2 compression only has a full key frame every 15 frames or so (it varies depending on the compression bit rate). Only those full frames can be used for thumbnail images. The only workaround would be to convert your video to DV, use the DV file in Toast and then have Toast re-encode back to MPEG 2. DV video has little compression so you can choose nearly any frame for the button.

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Interesting. What kind of video files are the source files. You mention VOB files but those are already MPEG 2 so they wouldn't need any re-encoding. In fact, that may be what's happening. Maybe you are seeing the term Multiplexing rather than Encoding when you click the burn button (or save as disc image). How long (in time) are the videos?

 

The source files are MPEG-2 already. They came from other DVDs I have. I am combining the main features from several of my DVD's into one. Yes I DO see the multiplexing rather than encoding progress bar come up when I make a disc image. I confess that I do not have much knowledge about the encoding formats for DVD video.

 

But what does any of this have to do with the estimated size of the DVD on the bottom of the DVD-Video window? Is it assuming there would be some additional video compression when there really isn't any? If so, how much would I know I would have to clip my video source files (there are seven) in order to fit it on a DVD-DL?

 

The biggest problem here is that Toast does not accurately tell me the space needed for my DVD-DL. If it did, I would know exactly how much I need to crop my videos to "squeeze" it onto one dual-layer DVD. So how can I figure that out?

 

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The source files are MPEG-2 already. They came from other DVDs I have. I am combining the main features from several of my DVD's into one. Yes I DO see the multiplexing rather than encoding progress bar come up when I make a disc image. I confess that I do not have much knowledge about the encoding formats for DVD video.

 

But what does any of this have to do with the estimated size of the DVD on the bottom of the DVD-Video window? Is it assuming there would be some additional video compression when there really isn't any? If so, how much would I know I would have to clip my video source files (there are seven) in order to fit it on a DVD-DL?

 

The biggest problem here is that Toast does not accurately tell me the space needed for my DVD-DL. If it did, I would know exactly how much I need to crop my videos to "squeeze" it onto one dual-layer DVD. So how can I figure that out?

Are you using the VIDEO_TS Compilation setting and choosing the titles you want to burn to the new DVD? Apparently Toast is not able to determine the actual size of individual titles with that method. I can understand why because Toast is reading the IFO file rather than the actual MPEG 2 files when using that setting.

 

In your case I suggest doing this differently. Choose DVD video as the format and drag in one of the source VIDEO_TS folders. You'll see all the titles as individual thumbnails. Delete the ones you don't want. You can preview them by clicking the extract button (which also is Toasts video editor). Do this for each VIDEO_TS folder in your compilation.

 

Toast will present an accurate scale what is fitting on the disc using this method. Also, you can create a menu for the DVD. To change the thumbnail image for the menu buttons click on the thumbnail and drag the scroll bar that appears.

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You have had some great advice here. I really appreciate the time your taking with me.

 

A few more issues, however ...

 

I've given up on finding a firmware update for my Samsung drive for a Mac. I'm using the Verbatim discs any ways, so I'll just skip this part. I don't have the patience to continue searching for this.

 

Also, I now understand the MPEG 2 compression key frames every 15 frames or so, limiting my finer selection for video button thumbnails. I just thought there would be an easier way to move the pointer rather than with a mouse. When you use a mouse, you can lose even more fine control over the thumbnail selection. It would be nice to control the pointer with a keyboard stroke, but I don't see that as an option. But where does the documentation tell you all this?

 

My last comment has to do with a "bug" (I believe) in Toast 10. That is, when you have two Toast .disc files for DVD-Video and you select the Menu Style options to some options (say menu style and a certain number of buttons and you SAVE and close this file and QUIT. Then you open the other Toast .disc file, you'll find ALL of your menu options for DVD-Video have changed to that most recent save, even though I'm looking at a DIFFERENT Toast file. What's up with that? Doesn't Toast save ALL your options with your Toast file?

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If you want to add only the titles you want then you need to do it the way it is done with Toast 8 and 9. Place a VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop (or in the Movies folder). Choose DVD with the top button of the Toast Media Browser. Double-click on what appears in the browser window. The titles in the VIDEO_TS folder appear. Drag the one(s) you want to the Video window and Toast extracts the MPEG video file from the VIDEO_TS folder. Do this with your other VIDEO_TS folder(s).

 

One thing that could be affecting the size estimate is the presence of multiple audio tracks. Click Edit next to a title. If there are multiple audio tracks the audio description becomes a button. Clicking the button lets you select a single audio track.

 

 

The encoding settings are irrelevant because Toast isn't doing any encoding. You would have to turn on Always Re-encode to force Toast to re-encode the video to a different size.

 

When Toast does no re-encoding then the final size is the actual size of the source MPEG 2 files plus a little for the menu.

 

Before I get into the details here, I want to thank you so much for helping me here. I hope you don't become frustrated with my questions ...

 

 

I am sorry but I don't really follow the steps you mentioned above. Can you spell it out more exactly, because I just have loads of questions by following your steps. I apologize if I'm being slow here but I can't follow it. Am I using the "Video" or "Convert" button and which option/format below it am I using (DVD-Video, VIDEO_TS Folders, VIDEO_TS Compilation)? What is the DVD button? Is it the "Video" button at the top? What do you mean by double-click on what appears in the browser window? Don't you mean "drag the VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop into the target drag area? Sorry if my words aren't tech savvy, but I'm really trying to understand.

 

 

Secondly, I think I have another problem here. I now tried, using your suggestion in a previous email, to drag the entire contents of each VIDEO_TS folder into the DVD-Video format under the "Video" button and removing what I didn't want. I then tried to burn my disk (Dual Layer DVD+R DL) and I received a "The drive reported an error: Sense Key = MEDIUM ERROR Sense Code = 0x0c WRITE ERROR." Then I tried burning a disc image and THEN burn it to the DVD and I got the same error (about 10-15% into the DVD burning process. Then I tried using the "VIDEO_TS Compilation" option and I STILL got this same error. Any ideas?

 

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Are you using the VIDEO_TS Compilation setting and choosing the titles you want to burn to the new DVD? Apparently Toast is not able to determine the actual size of individual titles with that method. I can understand why because Toast is reading the IFO file rather than the actual MPEG 2 files when using that setting.

 

In your case I suggest doing this differently. Choose DVD video as the format and drag in one of the source VIDEO_TS folders. You'll see all the titles as individual thumbnails. Delete the ones you don't want. You can preview them by clicking the extract button (which also is Toasts video editor). Do this for each VIDEO_TS folder in your compilation.

 

Toast will present an accurate scale what is fitting on the disc using this method. Also, you can create a menu for the DVD. To change the thumbnail image for the menu buttons click on the thumbnail and drag the scroll bar that appears.

 

That's interesting. What I did was select the Video Icon button at the top main window and then selected the VOB files I wanted from the original VIDEO_TS folders of each DVD and dragged them across. This made a listing of each VOB file under the "DVD-Video" subcategory like you suggested. I then edited the titles so as to change the menu names. I did NOT choose the "VIDEO_TS Folders" or "VIDEO_TS_Compilation" subcategory as I figured I didn't need the whole folder of video, but simply the main feature.

 

I'll try it your way by dragging everything over and then deleting what I don't want and see if this gives me a different estimated DVD image size.

 

Also, yes I know about changing the video graphic thumbnail for each menu button by simply clicking and dragging the scrub bar to where I want it. The problem with this, however, is it doesn't let me scrub as fine as I like to select the EXACT frame I want. How does one do this more precisely?

 

 

 

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Before I get into the details here, I want to thank you so much for helping me here. I hope you don't become frustrated with my questions ...

 

 

I am sorry but I don't really follow the steps you mentioned above. Can you spell it out more exactly, because I just have loads of questions by following your steps. I apologize if I'm being slow here but I can't follow it. Am I using the "Video" or "Convert" button and which option/format below it am I using (DVD-Video, VIDEO_TS Folders, VIDEO_TS Compilation)? What is the DVD button? Is it the "Video" button at the top? What do you mean by double-click on what appears in the browser window? Don't you mean "drag the VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop into the target drag area? Sorry if my words aren't tech savvy, but I'm really trying to understand.

Sorry to make it confusing. I get confused myself when I'm responding to several threads and can't recall what I've already posted in any one of them. You want the DVD video setting in the Video window. You also need to use the Toast Media Browser which is a separate window. If you don't see the Media Browser choose Show Media Browser from the Window menu. Click the top button of the Media Browser and select DVD. If your VIDEO_TS folder is on the desktop or in the Movies folder (and not inside any other folder) then it will be seen by the Media Browser. When some text appears in the browser window double-click on it to see the individual titles. You can drag the ones you want to the Video window and Toast will extract the MPEG 2 files from the VIDEO_TS folder. When it does this it writes them to the Roxio Converted Items folder which, by default, is in your Documents folder. It is important to remember that quitting Toast automatically empties the converted items folder unless you change that in Toast preferences. So don't quit Toast thinking you can come back and finish later or you'll have to start over.

 

Once the MPEG2 files are extracted you can click the Edit button and look in that window to see if the description of the audio tracks is a button. If it is a button you can select just one of the multiple audio tracks to include in your DVD.

 

Secondly, I think I have another problem here. I now tried, using your suggestion in a previous email, to drag the entire contents of each VIDEO_TS folder into the DVD-Video format under the "Video" button and removing what I didn't want. I then tried to burn my disk (Dual Layer DVD+R DL) and I received a "The drive reported an error: Sense Key = MEDIUM ERROR Sense Code = 0x0c WRITE ERROR." Then I tried burning a disc image and THEN burn it to the DVD and I got the same error (about 10-15% into the DVD burning process. Then I tried using the "VIDEO_TS Compilation" option and I STILL got this same error. Any ideas?

This, unfortunately means that your disc burning drive is not able to burn the specific discs you are using. Sometimes a firmware update for a drive, if available, enables it to burn more brands of discs. For DL media the most success is with Verbatim DVD+R DL. You can check user reports on the disc you are trying to burn by inserting a disc and choosing Disc Info from the Recorder menu. Then click the hotlink that appears in the disc info window.

 

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Okay, so I did as you suggested ...

 

I dragged ALL the contents of EACH VIDEO_TS folder onto my DVD-Video format and deleted ALL the files except for the main feature of each DVD. This gave me an estimated disk space of 7.96 GB using the Automatic option for Encoding. Then, when I burned the DVD image it gave me a 8.48 GB image. This is closer to the estimate, but it is still off in my opinion. But why can't Toast seem to estimate the disc image size correctly? And why do I have to add the ENTIRE VIDEO_TS folder and remove items instead of dragging over only what I want?

 

Now, when I choose the "Custom" option for encoding it immediately shrinks the DVD size to be 5.09 GB but it still makes the EXACT same disc image size of 8.48GB. So why is that? (The default Custom encoding options are Ave bit rate=4.0 Mbps, Max bit rate=8.0 MBps, Dolby Digital with Data rate for audio at 192 kbps).

 

 

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Okay, so I did as you suggested ...

 

I dragged ALL the contents of EACH VIDEO_TS folder onto my DVD-Video format and deleted ALL the files except for the main feature of each DVD. This gave me an estimated disk space of 7.96 GB using the Automatic option for Encoding. Then, when I burned the DVD image it gave me a 8.48 GB image. This is closer to the estimate, but it is still off in my opinion. But why can't Toast seem to estimate the disc image size correctly? And why do I have to add the ENTIRE VIDEO_TS folder and remove items instead of dragging over only what I want?

If you want to add only the titles you want then you need to do it the way it is done with Toast 8 and 9. Place a VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop (or in the Movies folder). Choose DVD with the top button of the Toast Media Browser. Double-click on what appears in the browser window. The titles in the VIDEO_TS folder appear. Drag the one(s) you want to the Video window and Toast extracts the MPEG video file from the VIDEO_TS folder. Do this with your other VIDEO_TS folder(s).

 

One thing that could be affecting the size estimate is the presence of multiple audio tracks. Click Edit next to a title. If there are multiple audio tracks the audio description becomes a button. Clicking the button lets you select a single audio track.

 

Now, when I choose the "Custom" option for encoding it immediately shrinks the DVD size to be 5.09 GB but it still makes the EXACT same disc image size of 8.48GB. So why is that? (The default Custom encoding options are Ave bit rate=4.0 Mbps, Max bit rate=8.0 MBps, Dolby Digital with Data rate for audio at 192 kbps).

The encoding settings are irrelevant because Toast isn't doing any encoding. You would have to turn on Always Re-encode to force Toast to re-encode the video to a different size.

 

When Toast does no re-encoding then the final size is the actual size of the source MPEG 2 files plus a little for the menu.

 

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Okay, I did as you suggested and ...

 

It works! I switched my media from Memorex to Verbatim DVD+R DL and I no longer got the Sense Key = MEDIUM error. I tried to upgrade my firmware for my DVD player, but, unfortunately, I couldn't find a Mac OSX version, only Windows. I'm using a Samsung SH--S203N DVD writer. I can use just the Verbatim discs, but it would be nice to be able to use other brands. Any ideas how I can upgrade my firmware on my Mac. I have Windows on this machine (as it is Intel based) but only under Parallels, not Boot Camp. I'd hate to set it up again under Boot Camp for just a little firmware upgrade.

 

Secondly, I can now follow extracting a VOB file into MPEG-2 recipe you rewrote above. It's much clearer.

 

Lastly, I asked before but I didn't get an answer. Do you know how to be more exact in changing the video graphic thumbnail for each menu button rather than simply clicking and dragging the scrub bar to where I want it? The problem with this is it doesn't let me scrub as fine as I like to select the EXACT frame I want. How does one do this more precisely?

 

 

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Interesting. What kind of video files are the source files. You mention VOB files but those are already MPEG 2 so they wouldn't need any re-encoding. In fact, that may be what's happening. Maybe you are seeing the term Multiplexing rather than Encoding when you click the burn button (or save as disc image). How long (in time) are the videos?

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