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Help with "reburning" CD-R


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I need some help. I am trying to set up an autorun CD-R with a couple of files (phone and photo directories) to open via a menu click, and then distribute these to members of my church, with the plan to get them back when the next edition is ready in a couple of months, so I can "reburn" the updated files onto the same CD-R's (sort of a recycle/reuse plan to reduce cost). I have no problems with the initial burn using Adaptec Easy CD Creator: CD-R's autorun (I'm using a freeware product called CDStarter that has an ini editor for the autorun), but I have not been able to get the CD-R to "reburn" with updated files. For whatever reason, when I reinsert a "burned" CD-R into the CDBurner, it opens it ready to write files and if I then eject it, it does NOT ask me how I want the CD closed, ie, permanently closed, readable/reopenable, left opened. It asked me those questions on the first burn, and I always chose closed to be readable on any CD reader, and be reopenable.

 

I need someone to tell me how to do what I am trying to do.

 

By the way, I believe this should work for several cycles because one set of files is only about 80 MB, so there is a lot of room left on the CD after the initial burn.

 

HELP!! Joe 20060504

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I need some help. I am trying to set up an autorun CD-R with a couple of files (phone and photo directories) to open via a menu click, and then distribute these to members of my church, with the plan to get them back when the next edition is ready in a couple of months, so I can "reburn" the updated files onto the same CD-R's (sort of a recycle/reuse plan to reduce cost). I have no problems with the initial burn using Adaptec Easy CD Creator: CD-R's autorun (I'm using a freeware product called CDStarter that has an ini editor for the autorun), but I have not been able to get the CD-R to "reburn" with updated files. For whatever reason, when I reinsert a "burned" CD-R into the CDBurner, it opens it ready to write files and if I then eject it, it does NOT ask me how I want the CD closed, ie, permanently closed, readable/reopenable, left opened. It asked me those questions on the first burn, and I always chose closed to be readable on any CD reader, and be reopenable.

 

I need someone to tell me how to do what I am trying to do.

 

By the way, I believe this should work for several cycles because one set of files is only about 80 MB, so there is a lot of room left on the CD after the initial burn.

 

HELP!! Joe 20060504

From what you've said, you're apparently formatting the discs for use with Direct CD, and then dragging and dropping the files to them. Personally, I've found Direct CD problematic with CD-Rs when trying to reopen them for writing. At least you're using CD-R discs and not CD-RW (erasable) discs.

 

Now, why not use the more reliable multi-session Data CD and write the discs using ECDC? No formatting required. Simply choose to close the session and not the disc, then, when the discs are updated, import the previous session, and then "overwrite" the files that are updated. Or even skip importing the previous session, "orphan" it, and write a new volume. You're right that you should be able to do this several times, probably 6 or 7. (There's some overhead space used when you close each session.)

 

That doesn't give you a solution for what you're doing currently, but rather an alternative to do it differently.

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The way it struck me was NOT that Packet-Writing was used, but I was sufficiently unsure to leave it for you, Dave.

 

Now that I have your information to think about ... (and Dave, this isn't aimed at YOU) ...

 

I'm still not clear that the problem is what I call "Basic False Analogy" (you format the floppy before you use it, therefore you format the CD before you use it), but it's close.

 

I think the OP assumes a CD-R is sort of like a portable, inexpensive Hard Drive. So, you write to it, and then erase and re-use.

 

This doesn't mean, in this context, Packet-Writing (DirectCD in this case, altho ALL Packet-Writing is unreliable - including Drag2Disc, Nero's InCD, Sonic's DLA, etc), with the intrinsic tendancy to fail that is part of Packet-Writing.

 

It's more that it is assumed you write magneticly, the same as with a floppy. And since a floppy is erasable and can be re-done, so can a CD.

 

However, a CD is NOT written magneticly. It is PHYSICALLY written - there are pits and lands instead of 0's and 1's. Once it is physically written (Packet-Writing excepted), that's in. It stays that way.

  • Commercially pressed CDs have the data physically pressed into the metal.
  • CD-Rs have the pits and lands created by "cooking" a dye with the laser, and it stays cooked.
  • CD-RWs have the pits and lands created by melting and recrystalizing an aluminum alloy - which promptly begins to de-crystalize, taking the data with it. They are fine for testing, or short term usage like transferring files from computer to computer - since the orignal is still safe - but in the long term don't do much other than permantly LOSE data.

To do the re-writing the OP seems to be looking for, if it's too large for a floppy (and a lot of new computers don't have floppies anymore), the next smallest is a Flash drive (aka Thumb / Pen / Jump / Keychain drive) - which is vastly more expensive than CD-Rs.

 

So, I'd say the OP can either use DataProject as you suggest, or consider that CD-Rs by the spindle are as low as about 15 cents each, so it's fairly inexpensive.

 

As to the old discs - there is a thread currently on General Chat about destroying old data

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=4990

and there is this thread on ECDC 5 that I fwded from the old Boards (with an addition by davelaska)

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=132

 

Lynn

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The way it struck me was NOT that Packet-Writing was used, but I was sufficiently unsure to leave it for you, Dave.

 

Now that I have your information to think about ... (and Dave, this isn't aimed at YOU) ...

 

I'm still not clear that the problem is what I call "Basic False Analogy <snip>"

Lynn

 

Dave has the measure of the problem, which is caused by the way Direct CD behaves, and gives the solution.

 

Joe, do what Dave says so concisely.

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Dave has the measure of the problem, which is caused by the way Direct CD behaves, and gives the solution.

 

Joe, do what Dave says so concisely.

Of course, using DirectCD (or any Packet-Writing Program), there's always the wild card that it can be fussy about being read - often requiring the same Operating System and Packet-Writing program Version that was originally used to create it - hardly likely something everyone will have.

 

DataProject is DEFINATELY the better way.

 

Lynn

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:)

From what you've said, you're apparently formatting the discs for use with Direct CD, and then dragging and dropping the files to them. Personally, I've found Direct CD problematic with CD-Rs when trying to reopen them for writing. At least you're using CD-R discs and not CD-RW (erasable) discs.

 

Now, why not use the more reliable multi-session Data CD and write the discs using ECDC? No formatting required. Simply choose to close the session and not the disc, then, when the discs are updated, import the previous session, and then "overwrite" the files that are updated. Or even skip importing the previous session, "orphan" it, and write a new volume. You're right that you should be able to do this several times, probably 6 or 7. (There's some overhead space used when you close each session.)

 

That doesn't give you a solution for what you're doing currently, but rather an alternative to do it differently.

 

Dan (and others), thanks for your reply(ies). I have a question about "closing the session and not the disk". That's what I have wanted to do at the input box that comes up the first burn, but not the second burn. I was able to get this box to come up on a second burn once since I posted this, but I didn't take really good notes on exactly what I did differently. In any case, I downloaded a freeware product called CDBurner XP Professional, and that appears to allow me to reburn without any problems, or at least I have not encountered any problems yet.

 

Any suggestions on "CD Utilities" software to "repair" a CD-R by a total erasure (write over), even when there are errors on the CD would be most helpful. I presume that will be a capability built into CD burner software and not standalone software.

 

Thanks again one and all for being kind and helpful to a newbie!!

 

Joe 20060505

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Any suggestions on "CD Utilities" software to "repair" a CD-R by a total erasure (write over), even when there are errors on the CD would be most helpful. I presume that will be a capability built into CD burner software and not standalone software.

Joe 20060505

Joe,

Please explain what you're wanting to do with this "repair" you're describing. If the following paragraphs don't answer the question, you'll need to describe the question in more detail for us to help.

 

A CD-R is written by using a laser to "cook" patterns into a layer of dye. Once the dye is cooked, that area is permanent and cannot be uncooked or overwritten. That is the nature of a CD-R.

 

When writing in sessions, as described by DAVE above, it is normal to import the file index from the earlier session into the current session so that files from the earlier session(s) can still be accessed.

-If you are wanting earlier sessions to just disappear, you can do that by declining to import the previous session. Earlier files will still exist on the CD and will still take up space, but most applications will not be able to see them anymore. In effect, this will be the closest you will get to an erasure on a CD-R but you can't recover used space.

 

If you are needing to erase a CD and recover the space previously used, you will need to go to a CD-RW which can be erased (completely blanked, not formatted) by CD Creator at any time.

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Joe,

Please explain what you're wanting to do with this "repair" you're describing. If the following paragraphs don't answer the question, you'll need to describe the question in more detail for us to help.

 

A CD-R is written by using a laser to "cook" patterns into a layer of dye. Once the dye is cooked, that area is permanent and cannot be uncooked or overwritten. That is the nature of a CD-R.

 

When writing in sessions, as described by DAVE above, it is normal to import the file index from the earlier session into the current session so that files from the earlier session(s) can still be accessed.

-If you are wanting earlier sessions to just disappear, you can do that by declining to import the previous session. Earlier files will still exist on the CD and will still take up space, but most applications will not be able to see them anymore. In effect, this will be the closest you will get to an erasure on a CD-R but you can't recover used space.

 

If you are needing to erase a CD and recover the space previously used, you will need to go to a CD-RW which can be erased (completely blanked, not formatted) by CD Creator at any time.

 

Brendon:

 

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it.

 

What I am looking for is software that will "repair" a CD-R that a CD-ROM or even a CD burner says "contains errors" and can't be read. My thought was that if I can "erase" any reference to what has already been burned on to the CD-R, then I can use the space that is left to burn "new" (or perhaps new copies of what was already there) files. The sum of the files in my project are on the order of 35 MB and even with the overhead on the disk, there is a lot of untouched space. So I would like to take a CD-R with errors and "erase" what is causing the CD to be unreadable, and then reburning my files to the recovered CD-R. I realize that I can't recover burned space, but I don't need the whole CD-R for my project; I just need the CD-R to be readable in any CD-ROM when I'm done.

 

Thanks again for your time and your help. Joe 20060506

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Brendon:

 

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it.

 

What I am looking for is software that will "repair" a CD-R that a CD-ROM or even a CD burner says "contains errors" and can't be read. My thought was that if I can "erase" any reference to what has already been burned on to the CD-R, then I can use the space that is left to burn "new" (or perhaps new copies of what was already there) files. The sum of the files in my project are on the order of 35 MB and even with the overhead on the disk, there is a lot of untouched space. So I would like to take a CD-R with errors and "erase" what is causing the CD to be unreadable, and then reburning my files to the recovered CD-R. I realize that I can't recover burned space, but I don't need the whole CD-R for my project; I just need the CD-R to be readable in any CD-ROM when I'm done.

 

Thanks again for your time and your help. Joe 20060506

With a CD-R, what has been done cannot be undone.

 

It's finished. Final. Complete. Permanant.

 

It cannot be erased.

 

What part of that do you not undestand?

 

Lynn

 

PS - If, and only IF, you can understand that, we can go back to the question of NEVER FORMAT the disc.

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In fact, now that I think of it, if you have access to a WinXP computer with a burner drive, use that.

 

Don't install ECDC 5, just use the built-in WinXP burning. It is drag-and-drop style but uses the much safer sessions.

 

That will eliminate the questions arising from your misunderstanding of how burning works.

 

Lynn

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In fact, now that I think of it, if you have access to a WinXP computer with a burner drive, use that.

 

Don't install ECDC 5, just use the built-in WinXP burning. It is drag-and-drop style but uses the much safer sessions.

 

That will eliminate the questions arising from your misunderstanding of how burning works.

 

Lynn

Lynn:

 

I really do understand how a CD burner works and that once a physical area of a CD-R disc has been "burned" it cannot be reburned. My issue (really two issues) was that if an error occurs during the burning process for my relatively small project (ca 35 MB), and I get a meaasge that the CD is now unreadable, is there a way to "repair" the CD so that I can burn files to a different physical region of the CD-R?? In otherwords, do I have to toss the CD-R with a LOT of blank space on it, or can I somehow eliminate the error by some sort of "erasing" or "formating" process so that I can burn new files in clean areas?? I do realize that burning a CD-R (or RW) is not done magnetically and that the CD-R does not need to be formated like a floppy or harddrive. My interest in "formatting" was to get rid of the offending error so that the rest of the CD-R is usable. If that's not possible, I'm OK, but I wanted to reduce the cost of generating these CDs by (re)using some that had become defective but that still had a lot of clean space on them.

 

The second issue is probably moot in that it is associated with Easy CD Creator 5 software, and I have switched to using CDBurnerXP Pro.

 

Thanks again for your reply and your time. Joe 20060506

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Lynn:

 

I really do understand how a CD burner works and that once a physical area of a CD-R disc has been "burned" it cannot be reburned. My issue (really two issues) was that if an error occurs during the burning process for my relatively small project (ca 35 MB), and I get a meaasge that the CD is now unreadable, is there a way to "repair" the CD so that I can burn files to a different physical region of the CD-R?? In otherwords, do I have to toss the CD-R with a LOT of blank space on it, or can I somehow eliminate the error by some sort of "erasing" or "formating" process so that I can burn new files in clean areas?? I do realize that burning a CD-R (or RW) is not done magnetically and that the CD-R does not need to be formated like a floppy or harddrive. My interest in "formatting" was to get rid of the offending error so that the rest of the CD-R is usable. If that's not possible, I'm OK, but I wanted to reduce the cost of generating these CDs by (re)using some that had become defective but that still had a lot of clean space on them.

 

The second issue is probably moot in that it is associated with Easy CD Creator 5 software, and I have switched to using CDBurnerXP Pro.

 

Thanks again for your reply and your time. Joe 20060506

 

"Erase" only applies to CD-RWs.

 

"Format" only applies to Packet-Writing", such as DirectCD.

 

Neither apply to Sessions-based or CD-R.

 

If you have a lot of discs with problems, and changing the brand of media or the package (since most brands these days are contracted out to the few factories that actually make the discs) doesn't help, it's time to look at the burner.

 

Lynn

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Lynn:

 

I really do understand how a CD burner works and that once a physical area of a CD-R disc has been "burned" it cannot be reburned. My issue (really two issues) was that if an error occurs during the burning process for my relatively small project (ca 35 MB), and I get a meaasge that the CD is now unreadable, is there a way to "repair" the CD so that I can burn files to a different physical region of the CD-R?? In otherwords, do I have to toss the CD-R with a LOT of blank space on it, or can I somehow eliminate the error by some sort of "erasing" or "formating" process so that I can burn new files in clean areas?? I do realize that burning a CD-R (or RW) is not done magnetically and that the CD-R does not need to be formated like a floppy or harddrive. My interest in "formatting" was to get rid of the offending error so that the rest of the CD-R is usable. If that's not possible, I'm OK, but I wanted to reduce the cost of generating these CDs by (re)using some that had become defective but that still had a lot of clean space on them.

 

The second issue is probably moot in that it is associated with Easy CD Creator 5 software, and I have switched to using CDBurnerXP Pro.

 

Thanks again for your reply and your time. Joe 20060506

You never clarified or confirmed that the original discs were written by formatting and using Direct CD to write them. If indeed this is what you did, and you can't get Direct CD to re-open the disc for writing, then I'd suggest tossing the disc(s) and starting over with a fresh disc.

 

Do not format it, just start ECDC, select Data CD project, and write anew. When you go to start the burn, in the lower left of that screen will be options to write in Track At Once mode where you can close the session and not the disc, or close the disc, or to write in Disc At Once mode, which always closes the disc. Select the option to close the session but not the disc. Writing the disc this way should make it readable in any machine, where discs written with Direct CD may not be readable.

 

Once you have formatted a CD-R (write once) disc for use with Direct CD, you cannot use it for a standard Data CD session disc.

 

Hope that helps!

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