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bigfeather

bin/cue from audio CD doesn't keep CD-Text or pauses

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FYI, I'm running Toast 10.0.2 on OSX 10.5.6

 

I've been trying to use Toast 10 for making bin/cue filesets to send off as reference copies of master CDs for clients in far-off places.

 

However, I'm finding that Toast ignores at least two critical aspects of the CD: Pauses, and CD-Text.

 

Here's how I'm doing it:

 

First, I create a master (red book audio) CD, with CD-Text, and proper pause gaps (spaces between songs that result in negative countdown time between tracks, (useful, among other things, for avoiding adding the spaces between songs to the end of the file length when people rip MP3s from the finished CDs).

 

Then, I confirm in a CD player or Plextools that both are working properly, and load the finished CD back into the same CD burner/drive (a Plextor Premium), so Toast can make the bin/cue from it.

 

From Toast, I select "Save as Bin/Cue" with the CD-Text option checked, and the fileset is created with a .bin, a .cue and a .cdt file (ostensibly the text).

 

Then, I eject the master CD, and load a blank into the same Plextor Premium burner, and open the .cue file back into Toast, and click the big red button to burn a disc from it.

 

The result is, I get a playable CD, but NO CD-Text, and no pause-gaps whatsoever!! It's not a true copy of the CD. I haven't checked, but I'm guessing it would also miss ISRC codes and UPC/EAN if embedded too (?)

 

So, am I doing something wrong here, missing some settings? Or is this a bug, or a limitation of the bin/cue feature-set in Toast?

 

Thanks!

-MB

Edited by bigfeather

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You're doing something I have no experience with. However, what I'd do is also create a disc image (and .sd2f file) with the same project that I used to burn the test CD. In other words, burn the CD and then Save as Disc Image before leaving that project. See if adding the .sd2f file instead of the content from the CD works. Check to see if you need to re-enter the CD-Text info.

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Two things --

 

1. I'm using other software to create the master CD .. only looking to Toast to make a bin/cue set from that master. My question could just as easily apply to the same process using a commercially released CD as the source.

 

2. the .sd2 option you're describing, if I recall correctly, is a holdover from "Jam Image" file format, where the PQ is roughly represented by region definitions stored in the file header. Besides doubting it would carry CD-Text or proper PQ coding (pregaps, etc), the primary problem I have with that is that it's too format/platform specific. Bin/Cue sets are (supposedly) semi-universal. In other words, it should be just as easy for someone on Windows with other software to handle recreating a CD from bin/cue as it is for someone with a Mac and Toast

 

 

I just thought (hoped) it would be a more complete copy of the disc. Still wondering if this shortcoming is pilot error, bug, or a limitation of the bin/cue format in general.

 

-mb

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Two things --

 

1. I'm using other software to create the master CD .. only looking to Toast to make a bin/cue set from that master. My question could just as easily apply to the same process using a commercially released CD as the source.

 

2. the .sd2 option you're describing, if I recall correctly, is a holdover from "Jam Image" file format, where the PQ is roughly represented by region definitions stored in the file header. Besides doubting it would carry CD-Text or proper PQ coding (pregaps, etc), the primary problem I have with that is that it's too format/platform specific. Bin/Cue sets are (supposedly) semi-universal. In other words, it should be just as easy for someone on Windows with other software to handle recreating a CD from bin/cue as it is for someone with a Mac and Toast

 

 

I just thought (hoped) it would be a more complete copy of the disc. Still wondering if this shortcoming is pilot error, bug, or a limitation of the bin/cue format in general.

 

-mb

 

The .sd2f is the Sound Designer 2 Format which is a standard. When you open a .sd2f file in Toast it opens in the audio CD window with all of the gaps, crossfades and whatever being as they were set.

 

Here's something I suggest trying:

 

Drag the audio CD into the Toast Audio window with audio CD selected as the format. Toast extracts the content and should retain all its settings as well as read the CD Text. There is a preview disc option in the Recorder menu that plays a few seconds before and after each track. You may here a click at the point where the track mark is located but that won't be present in the final file. If all is correct make your Bin/cue from this.

 

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The .sd2f is the Sound Designer 2 Format which is a standard. When you open a .sd2f file in Toast it opens in the audio CD window with all of the gaps, crossfades and whatever being as they were set.

Yeah, I know about Sound Designer II files... (I go way back, to actually having used Sound Designer itself!) .. Anyway, I think what you're describing is indeed a manifestation of the old Jam Image feature. Regardless, it would only work for people with Toast on a mac, thus wouldn't help me with but a portion of my clients

 

Here's something I suggest trying:

 

Drag the audio CD into the Toast Audio window with audio CD selected as the format. Toast extracts the content and should retain all its settings as well as read the CD Text. There is a preview disc option in the Recorder menu that plays a few seconds before and after each track. You may here a click at the point where the track mark is located but that won't be present in the final file. If all is correct make your Bin/cue from this.

Whoa!!

 

Well, that's at least better. All the PQ and pauses are now correct, but despite seeing the CD-Text before saving as bin/cue, it still will not burn a new disc with the CD-Text when trying to do so from the saved bin/cue!

 

I'm happy that the pause-gaps and spacing are working correctly, though it is kinda a shame it can't be done without the extraction/file copying step too. Many many thanks for that, professor!

 

Now, is there some reason the CD-Text aspect is not working? I do believe the .cdt component in the bin/cue fileset is intended to be the text info, and it does show that .cdt in the list of files being referred to when opening the .cue document in Toast ... just ... never gets that Text to any disc burned from there!

 

-mb

 

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Yeah, I know about Sound Designer II files... (I go way back, to actually having used Sound Designer itself!) .. Anyway, I think what you're describing is indeed a manifestation of the old Jam Image feature. Regardless, it would only work for people with Toast on a mac, thus wouldn't help me with but a portion of my clients

Makes sense to me.

 

Whoa!!

 

Well, that's at least better. All the PQ and pauses are now correct, but despite seeing the CD-Text before saving as bin/cue, it still will not burn a new disc with the CD-Text when trying to do so from the saved bin/cue!

 

I'm happy that the pause-gaps and spacing are working correctly, though it is kinda a shame it can't be done without the extraction/file copying step too. Many many thanks for that, professor!

 

Now, is there some reason the CD-Text aspect is not working? I do believe the .cdt component in the bin/cue fileset is intended to be the text info, and it does show that .cdt in the list of files being referred to when opening the .cue document in Toast ... just ... never gets that Text to any disc burned from there!

 

-mb

I, too, would expect the .cdt file to work but it may only be readable on mastering gear. CD Text is a kludge of the audio CD standard and other than Sony-related labels I don't know if there are other music companies using it with commercial CDs. I don't have the background to advise on this.

 

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I, too, would expect the .cdt file to work but it may only be readable on mastering gear.

I'm not sure what you mean by that... for one, I have mastering gear (I'm a mastering engineer), and, CD-Text will display on any CD player that displays it (I have 3 such players between my studio and my car).. And, applications like Plextools, Terminal and TOAST can read it when it's present. None of the above show CD-Text after the process I've described and you've refined above.

 

CD Text is a kludge of the audio CD standard and other than Sony-related labels I don't know if there are other music companies using it with commercial CDs. I don't have the background to advise on this.
Klugey origins not withstanding, it's actually pretty common. I embed CD-Text on more than half of the masters I work on, label and independent.

 

Roxio's support ticket system has been less than impressive in even comprehending the question, so I appreciate your sticking with this and trying to help! Thanks, tsantsee!

 

 

So -- have you noticed, or is there anybody else out there that has noticed or can confirm this? Or found a workaround?

 

Thanks

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So -- have you noticed, or is there anybody else out there that has noticed or can confirm this? Or found a workaround?

 

Thanks

As you can tell I'm a bit out of your league on this. The only time professional audio folks visit this site is when they have a problem so your post may not get seen by any of those for awhile. The best resource I can send you to is bigbluelounge where the Mac audio pros hang out. They, too, have a forum. Hopefully someone there can steer you to a solution.

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