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Black Edges On Scanned Photos


REDWAGON

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Using EMC 7.5 (updated). I have scanned about 50 hard copy photos (all color) using my HP Scanjet 7400C scanner. Some of the originals are 8 x 10, others are as small as 2x3. I have them all saved in a special folder as JPEG files. When I "Preview" them (XP Home/SP2) Most all of them have a black border on the left and right and sometimes on the top and bottom. This black area varies in width depending on the photo I select.

 

I have placed all of them in Videowave (Storyline view). When I preview the production, I get the same black borders on the photos, same as I did in XP preview mode. I am pretty sure this same problem was posted some time ago but I don't recall what the problem was or if there was a solution. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Frank....

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I'm just wondering how it is you scanned these photos in the first place. I have seen some scanners display problems with very dark or bright pics (usually negs or slides) and the auto crop goes crazy. But these are photos. You don't normally these problems. Are you cropping manually or using auto?

What interface/software are you using to scan? I just wonder what's up because if you're seeing the black lines previewing the photos, then it obviously has nothing to do with EMC. It's a scanning problem.

Have you scanned anything since to see if a black line is added?

I guess I'm just wondering if you can give me anything more to go on...I'd like to help...

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Well ml, I tried your suggestion in regards to placing a color panel and then inserting one of my photos that had the black borders. No matter what color I picked (white, red, blue or ??) when the photo was inserted in the colored panel it must cover up all of the color that was placed, as it still comes out with the black border, same as it did before.

 

Back to square one I guess. I'm anxious to see what Bruce comes up with if he tries duplicating what I am expierencing.

 

Frank....

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Well, back again with the results of my last effort. I tried changing the width and size of the photo as suggested but no matter what size I change it to it still has the black borders. So that doesn't work either.

 

So far the only way I can eliminate the black borders is to right click on that particular slide in storyboard view and click on edit and use the "Edit Motion Pictures" option. Then change the slider size to where it makes the entire photo or slide smaller until the black border is outside the area with the resize, then move the slide around to cover the best part of the slide I want to see. Then when I look at it again in the storyboard view it does eliminate the black borders (either the top and bottom ones or the right and left ones depending on which place they were).

 

BUT---In doing that, it CROPS the slide down to only a very small portion of what the original slide was. And that's N.G. !!

 

Still trying however working on anything I can think of "Out of the Box" to make this problem go away.

There just has to be a reason why this happens. BTW, does any one know what the actual size of the "production Preview" window screen is ? If I knew that, I might be able to produce a photo that will cover that entire preview screen and in turn will also show the same when I build the DVD.

 

Frank.....

 

I don't know if this will help as i did it in ECM 8 (VW 8). If i scan a photo onto my hd then import it into VW I

end up with the black edges your talking about, but if I import it directly ( see screen shot ) I end up with the same aspect ratio 4:3 and no black bars. As i said i don't know if you can do this in 7 as i don't have it.

13257.jpg

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Well ml, I tried your suggestion in regards to placing a color panel and then inserting one of my photos that had the black borders. No matter what color I picked (white, red, blue or ??) when the photo was inserted in the colored panel it must cover up all of the color that was placed, as it still comes out with the black border, same as it did before.

 

Back to square one I guess. I'm anxious to see what Bruce comes up with if he tries duplicating what I am expierencing.

 

Frank....

 

Hi Frank.

 

I don't know why you are getting the black border. I cannot duplicate the problem but then again I only have a real cheap scanner.

 

But, to do what ml suggested with the color panel, you may have to adjust the width and/or size of the the overlay. After you have placed your color panel on the video track and inserted the picture on the overlay track, double click on the picture and the Overlay editor should open. If you have black bars on the left and right, try moving the Overlay Width slider until they are gone and the color panel you selected is visible. For black bars on the top and bottom, you will have to mess with the Zoom and Overlay Size sliders.

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Gee Frank, I think I'm more anxious to know what's up than you are. It's almost a problem that you have a first rate scanner cause we can't just go blaming it for being so-so.

There is software out there to combat this problem, so it isn't too rare, and I know I've seen it happen before but for Pete's sake I can't remember what I did to combat it. It was years ago with a cheaper reflective only scanner.

You could naturally just crop the borders out with some photo manipulation software, even just basic stuff that comes with pretty much any scanner. Doesn't the scanjet come with some? Tedious and time consuming for sure but easier than trying to play with overlays. maybe.

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Holler, Holler :)

O.K. ml I followed your suggestion to the "T".

I should start however by saying that I have scanned several color photos and saved them to my hard drive. Sizes were varied (8"x10", 5"x7" , 4"x6" etc.).

Next went and opened Videowave (7.5). Switched to "Timeline" view. Clicked on the top track and chose the option "Insert Color Panel" and chose Black. Then I copied and pasted several more color panels on the Story Board.

I magnified the Timeline view which gave me a much larger view of each of the color panels. Then I dragged and dropped several of my previously scanned photos onto the "Overlay" Track. BTW, I lined them up so they were on each of the colored panels. Although this didn't seem to matter.

 

Now when I go back to the first panel or beginning of my production, and run it, I STILL see the photos in the preview screen with black borders on them. Almost identical to all the other ways I have tried. The ONLY way I can succeed in getting each of the photos to fill the entire preview screen is in storyline view, click on "EDIT"--"MOTION PICTURES" and move the slider (minus side) so that the black boders are outside the selected re-size. Now when I view the photo in the preview screen the black borders are gone. However, I have also removed a larger portion of the original photo. N.G. !!!

 

Sorry ml if I am just to dumb to figure this out. I have even sent an e-mail to HP technical support advising them of my problem and asking if they have any idea where the scanner is possibly the problem for some reason. I haven't heard back yet but I'm sure I will. Not that they will have an answer but just to try and eliminate the scanner as the problem.

 

Frank....

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Ok Frank...I feel like I'm harrassing you but I have two more suggestions.

 

I think I mentioned before that (if) it's the scanner, it might have lost it's 'home'. Turn off the computer, and unplug (not just power off) the scanner for at least one minute.

 

Hopefully HP will have an answer for you but failing that in the meantime, there's one more thing.

 

When previewing your scan, deliberately add an inch or so of white 'nothing' all around your pic. When you get your final scan, you hopefully will have all of the pic, with some extraneous white and or black border that you can crop off. More work but at least you shouldn't lose any of your pic that way.

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Frank, I hope that vid is onto something here. I really do wish I was by my computer so I could test some stuff, myself. You are going to have to be the guinea pig, here.

 

If you have not done it already, try scanning those pictures at different resolutions, both higher and lower, than what you are using now.

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Using EMC 7.5 (updated). I have scanned about 50 hard copy photos (all color) using my HP Scanjet 7400C scanner. Some of the originals are 8 x 10, others are as small as 2x3. I have them all saved in a special folder as JPEG files. When I "Preview" them (XP Home/SP2) Most all of them have a black border on the left and right and sometimes on the top and bottom. This black area varies in width depending on the photo I select.

 

I have placed all of them in Videowave (Storyline view). When I preview the production, I get the same black borders on the photos, same as I did in XP preview mode. I am pretty sure this same problem was posted some time ago but I don't recall what the problem was or if there was a solution. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Frank....

 

Check this out Frank It might help

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Great bunch of reading Alan !! Especially the portion all about scanning. The part about what DPI to set, I had never stopped to think about, especially when it comes to scanned images that you are going to use in a DVD to show on a TV. A lot of the DVD's I make, I run through my notebook computer and then through my NEC digital projector for special projects I have made for weddings, parties, retirements, etc. So I usually see the images on a computer.

 

Anyway, I do thank you for sharing that web site and the information about scanning. And I'm sure there will be others that frequent this forum that will also gain in knowledge from the information as well. Kudos man, and thanks for all your help with my original problem !!!

 

cheers

Frank....

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Vid2man97:

I didn't mean to neglect your suggestions, I just work with one at a time that's all. I did try using your idea of just placing some white sheets of paper all around the photo I was scanning, and made sure that the white material covered the entire space that the scanner size was set for. That actuall works :):huh: There was a slight bit of black around the sides where I placed the white paper, but I know if I had overlayed the white paper a bit over the entire photo, that probably wouldn't have happened. The fact that I would have to keep placing some white materail around every scan I made would be a little frustrating, especially when I have to scan every one manually and not using a ADF unit. And each photo is a different size. Anyway--Thanks for a suggestion that actually worked.

 

ml:

vid2man97's suggestion works O.K. but I found that if I chose the method of inserting a color Panel (in the Timeline view) and instead of choosing black, I changed to White. Then after inserting one of the black bordered original photo scans as an Overlay, I did an EDIT--OVERLAY on it and manipulated the size and width of the options and then moving the photo around a bit, I could accomplish the same thing as vid2man97's way. That way I don't have to keep moving the white paper material to fit each and every photo I scan just to cover each size.

Anyway, now in either case (ml or vid2man97) when I view the preview screen I get the photo I want, but now instead of a nasty black border, I get the photo with a pleasant white border which at least looks a lot better.

 

Now what I have found from vid2man97's suggestion was that if I have a photo to scan that covers all of the entire scan area that I have chose for my scanner to scan, I don't get any black borders. However if I scan a photo that is smaller than the area I set to scan, I get the black borders. So I guess it really does have something to do with the scanner.

 

This has been an exceptional and completely different problem than most and I really do appreciate all of the suggestions and help from all that have followed the post and given their suggestions. After having made a videowave production now and knowing how to get rid of nasty black borders when viewing a final DVD, it really looks pretty good with at least all white around the photo.

 

Bruce:

I am still wanting to see what you have to offer when you get back from your vacation. And make some comments of all I have expierenced with this HP 7400c scanner. :D

 

Now back to work..........

Frank....

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Great bunch of reading Alan !! Especially the portion all about scanning. The part about what DPI to set, I had never stopped to think about, especially when it comes to scanned images that you are going to use in a DVD to show on a TV. A lot of the DVD's I make, I run through my notebook computer and then through my NEC digital projector for special projects I have made for weddings, parties, retirements, etc. So I usually see the images on a computer.

 

Anyway, I do thank you for sharing that web site and the information about scanning. And I'm sure there will be others that frequent this forum that will also gain in knowledge from the information as well. Kudos man, and thanks for all your help with my original problem !!!

 

cheers

Frank....

 

:) The DPI part is what I was trying to tell you to try, when I said try different resolutions. My terminology was fouled up. :huh: 2 days from now, and I will be home. Part good and part bad.

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Hi Alan:

 

That looks pretty good. What do you mean by "If I import it directly..." When I scan an original photo, I can either print it, or save it to a specified folder, or scan it to several programs that I have on my computer (HP Share-to Web, M.S. Power Point, M.S. Word, Outlook Express, Paint, or Word pad). So with your scanner and having EMC 8 installed, I assume you have an option to scan it directly to VW. Is That correct ??

 

BTW, I go way back with Hot Rods Alan :)

 

Frank.....

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Frank, I wish that I was at home, so I could try to reproduce this anomaly with my 7400C scanner. Unfortunately, I am a little over 1,000 miles from home. I am visiting my son and his family, which IS fortunate. :)

Patty, what Frank is talking about has nothing in common with cropping photos in Image Cropper or other programs like that. He is cropping the actual size of the photo, otherwise the scanner will scan an entire 8-1/2" x 11" sheet, or more precisely, the entire size of the scanner's glass bed.

 

I won't get home until next Sunday. :huh:

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Hi Alan:

 

That looks pretty good. What do you mean by "If I import it directly..." When I scan an original photo, I can either print it, or save it to a specified folder, or scan it to several programs that I have on my computer (HP Share-to Web, M.S. Power Point, M.S. Word, Outlook Express, Paint, or Word pad). So with your scanner and having EMC 8 installed, I assume you have an option to scan it directly to VW. Is That correct ??

 

BTW, I go way back with Hot Rods Alan :)

 

Frank.....

 

Hi Frank

Im not at my computer at the moment & for the life of me I can't remember exactly what I did so I'll post a blow by blow in the morning my time ( it's 8.15 pm now ).

 

PS my avatar is my car and the other one in the screen shot was taken on a trip to england in 85. :huh::D

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With the white paper as the clue.... did you remember to replace the white background pad on the scanner top after you last scanned slides or negatives? :huh:

 

Sorry for such a basic question but sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. :)

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Vid2man97:

I didn't mean to neglect your suggestions, I just work with one at a time that's all. I did try using your idea of just placing some white sheets of paper all around the photo I was scanning, and made sure that the white material covered the entire space that the scanner size was set for. That actuall works :):huh: There was a slight bit of black around the sides where I placed the white paper, but I know if I had overlayed the white paper a bit over the entire photo, that probably wouldn't have happened. The fact that I would have to keep placing some white materail around every scan I made would be a little frustrating, especially when I have to scan every one manually and not using a ADF unit. And each photo is a different size. Anyway--Thanks for a suggestion that actually worked.

 

ml:

vid2man97's suggestion works O.K. but I found that if I chose the method of inserting a color Panel (in the Timeline view) and instead of choosing black, I changed to White. Then after inserting one of the black bordered original photo scans as an Overlay, I did an EDIT--OVERLAY on it and manipulated the size and width of the options and then moving the photo around a bit, I could accomplish the same thing as vid2man97's way. That way I don't have to keep moving the white paper material to fit each and every photo I scan just to cover each size.

Anyway, now in either case (ml or vid2man97) when I view the preview screen I get the photo I want, but now instead of a nasty black border, I get the photo with a pleasant white border which at least looks a lot better.

 

Now what I have found from vid2man97's suggestion was that if I have a photo to scan that covers all of the entire scan area that I have chose for my scanner to scan, I don't get any black borders. However if I scan a photo that is smaller than the area I set to scan, I get the black borders. So I guess it really does have something to do with the scanner.

 

This has been an exceptional and completely different problem than most and I really do appreciate all of the suggestions and help from all that have followed the post and given their suggestions. After having made a videowave production now and knowing how to get rid of nasty black borders when viewing a final DVD, it really looks pretty good with at least all white around the photo.

 

Bruce:

I am still wanting to see what you have to offer when you get back from your vacation. And make some comments of all I have expierenced with this HP 7400c scanner. :D

 

Now back to work..........

Frank....

 

Hi Frank

Glad you found a work around you can live with for the time being. What i find interesting is if i put a photo on the story board thats been captured from my dig cam it fills the screen but from the scanner you end up with the black bars!

Anyway check out the general board I'll post the rod info. :D

I don't have to go back to work I sacked the boss last week. :D:D:D:D

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That's really ironic that you asked that question Steve. When I first started working on this problem, I thought that because the particular photo I was scanning was smaller than the scan area I has set, that it was possible that this might be the problem. However, I actually did think about that white faced panel and the fact that it is on the lid of the scanner, I just forgot about it. When Vid2man97 suggested that I cover the glass with a white sheet of paper, I began to wonder why the white face panel that is part of the scanner wouldn't do the same thing. Really wierd, as when I did what Vid suggested the darn thng actually worked. I still can't figure out why the white face that came with the scanner would do the same thing.

 

Anyway, thanks for suggesting that Steve. It is on the scanner to answer your question. Checking the manual, that white mat that comes with the scanner is exactly what it's for. When I checked to see how close the white pad is to the scanner glass, it's very tight on the glass when I close the lid. Go figure !!

 

Frank....

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Gee Frank, I think I'm more anxious to know what's up than you are. It's almost a problem that you have a first rate scanner cause we can't just go blaming it for being so-so.

There is software out there to combat this problem, so it isn't too rare, and I know I've seen it happen before but for Pete's sake I can't remember what I did to combat it. It was years ago with a cheaper reflective only scanner.

You could naturally just crop the borders out with some photo manipulation software, even just basic stuff that comes with pretty much any scanner. Doesn't the scanjet come with some? Tedious and time consuming for sure but easier than trying to play with overlays. maybe.

 

I was going to suggest what Merv suggested, using overlay and zoom adjustments. Let us know how you make out. :)

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Thanks Bruce for your interest and support. Have fun with your son and family. That's way more important than this !!

 

The scanner is a good one Patty and I'm going to keep working on this until I either figure out how to fix it or scuttle the whole problem and run the DVD with the black borders on most of the photos. :) It really isn't that bad. Just annoying, that's all.

 

I'll give ml's suggestion a little more effort Steve and see what I can accomplish playing around with the color Panel a little more with the size and width as you have suggested. Thanks for your support and suggestions too.

 

Frank....

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That's really ironic that you asked that question Steve. When I first started working on this problem, I thought that because the particular photo I was scanning was smaller than the scan area I has set, that it was possible that this might be the problem. However, I actually did think about that white faced panel and the fact that it is on the lid of the scanner, I just forgot about it. When Vid2man97 suggested that I cover the glass with a white sheet of paper, I began to wonder why the white face panel that is part of the scanner wouldn't do the same thing. Really wierd, as when I did what Vid suggested the darn thng actually worked.

 

I still can't figure out why the white face that came with the scanner wouldn't do the same thing.

 

(---Frank...The difference is the scanner picks up on the edges of the paper. That's how it 'sees' something is there, even though it's just a blank piece of paper.

 

You could also try (without a piece of paper), to scan normally with just a slight twist. Normally, you would crop your photo just prior to hitting 'scan'. I assume like any other scanner the photo is surrounded by a dotted line. Now drag that line on all four sides to make your scan selection bigger than the pic.

Usually people crop in to compensate for poor autocropping on some scanners but in your case, you want it larger in order to fool the scanner into not making that black border issue. After the scan, you can crop any extraneous edges off of your pic. I hope.)

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Guest mlpasley

Alan may have hit on the solution.

 

It sounds like those photos are being imported with a black edge.

 

Alan is 'capturing' those photos with the Capture program within EMC8.

 

The EMC7 also has a Capture program that you can either launch from the main screen or within VideoWave ( under File\ Capture ).

 

Capture should work with you HP scanner.

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Well, back again with the results of my last effort. I tried changing the width and size of the photo as suggested but no matter what size I change it to it still has the black borders. So that doesn't work either.

 

So far the only way I can eliminate the black borders is to right click on that particular slide in storyboard view and click on edit and use the "Edit Motion Pictures" option. Then change the slider size to where it makes the entire photo or slide smaller until the black border is outside the area with the resize, then move the slide around to cover the best part of the slide I want to see. Then when I look at it again in the storyboard view it does eliminate the black borders (either the top and bottom ones or the right and left ones depending on which place they were).

 

BUT---In doing that, it CROPS the slide down to only a very small portion of what the original slide was. And that's N.G. !!

 

Still trying however working on anything I can think of "Out of the Box" to make this problem go away.

There just has to be a reason why this happens. BTW, does any one know what the actual size of the "production Preview" window screen is ? If I knew that, I might be able to produce a photo that will cover that entire preview screen and in turn will also show the same when I build the DVD.

 

Frank.....

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Guest mlpasley

Thanks for sharing your solution, Frank. Hopefully, when I start scanning in photos in the next couple of weeks, I'll remember how you got it to work.

 

My scanner works the way vid2man97 described. If I grab the handles on the edges of the scanned image, I can enlarge the area to include the white space. Somewhere in the settings for my scanner is the option to set the size of the area to be scanned. You might check to see if the HP has a similar software setting.

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