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REDWAGON

Black Edges On Scanned Photos

Question

Using EMC 7.5 (updated). I have scanned about 50 hard copy photos (all color) using my HP Scanjet 7400C scanner. Some of the originals are 8 x 10, others are as small as 2x3. I have them all saved in a special folder as JPEG files. When I "Preview" them (XP Home/SP2) Most all of them have a black border on the left and right and sometimes on the top and bottom. This black area varies in width depending on the photo I select.

 

I have placed all of them in Videowave (Storyline view). When I preview the production, I get the same black borders on the photos, same as I did in XP preview mode. I am pretty sure this same problem was posted some time ago but I don't recall what the problem was or if there was a solution. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Frank....

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Thanks for the continued efforts Alan. I did what you have done with this last setup in Videowave (version 8) however I am using version 7.5. Anyway, After "capturing" a color photo using my scanner, I changed the pixel W x H to what you said was good (603 x 451). When I did that, it distorted the picture somewhat as this was not the actual aspect ratio of the original, but close. Then I entered it in Videowave as first slide (storyboard view). Well, you guessed it the big old black borders were still on the left and right sides of the picture when looked at in the preview screen. As a matter of fact, the width of the black borders were a little larger than if I used the original size I scanned it to.

 

Side Note: Interested in knowing what 1/4 mile time and speeds you are getting with your rod.

(Probably most suited for General Chat).

 

 

Frank....

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Frank, you must have some sort of photo software (?). If not, ignore me.

 

Try this:

 

Start with a 'photo' that's all black. In photoshop I just make a new 'image' and fill it with black.

By the way, size it to 704X480.

 

Paste your pic over top of it, sized smaller, like 600X450 and there you go. You might have to position it a little depending on the extra black stuff on the pic you're trying to disguise.

 

Now, if the pic was 1300X900 for example, you can resize it to 600X450. Lose the 50 pixels you don't need by cropping. Don't just 'change' it to that unless you don't mind the distortions.

 

I'll forget for now the pixel aspect ratio and whatnot, but that should get your pic shown with the black horror you've been fighting disguised.

 

Experiment a little: try 640X480 and so on. See what you can and can't squeeze in.

 

I have to agree...aw0087...nice ride...

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Guest mlpasley
Start with a 'photo' that's all black. In photoshop I just make a new 'image' and fill it with black.

By the way, size it to 704X480.

 

Well, now that's just too easy.

 

I guess I should have suggested a black color panel. :)

 

Ok. I just did a test and here's what I found.

 

If your photo is sized 640 x 480 pixels (which is the size of pictures extracted from video), you get no black borders. Any other size has black borders to 'fill in the blanks'.

 

Right click on your video in the storyline and choose 'properties'. It should tell you what the size of those photos are.

Edited by mlpasley

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O.K. ml. So what I hear you suggesting is that if the photo that you insert into storyboard in VW is not 640 X 480 pixels, then there will always be some kind of black borders. Well, lets back up the bus for a minute. First off, When I have an original color photo that I want to scan (either using "Capture" within the program or scan it to my hard drive, the original size of the photo is not always 640 x 480. As a matter of fact it would just be coinsidental if it were exactly that size.

 

Now, if I use my photo editing program and change the original size (392 x 411 pixels) to 640 x 480 pixels and don't keep the "aspect ratio" option checked, the end result is that the photo is way out of kelter. And I'm really not sure about making a black panel and then placing a scanned photo on it. I can create a black color panel (of any color that's available in the program, including black) but you cannot place a photo in that same color panel. When you do that, the color panel moves to it's own place and the one you tried to place on it moves to it's own panel. What in the h*%l am I not seeing or doing right ?? I really thought I knew how to work the VW program and all it's options but evidently not.

 

I have beat this horse to death and still cannot come up with anything other than a panel that has black borders :) And vid2man97, I will play around with your suggestion (I think) and see what results I get. Thanks to all of you for sticking with and helping on this stupid problem I'm having.

 

Frank....(I probably should just have a few beers and forget the whole thing).

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Frank, I hope you're relaxing a bit. Blame me here...I don't think I was too clear on this 'resizing' thing.

It's just that there are a few ways of doing it. I'll try to explain without getting too long winded.

 

You want to end up with 640X480 say..

 

For example, you have 800X480. You're right to keep aspect ratio option checked, and change 800 to 640. You then keep all of the pic, it's just not as wide.

 

For example, you have 640X600. Now you change the width, 600 to 480 and the height will adapt down, keeping the ratio.

 

In either case though, you keep your ratio but end up with blank screen. I've for some time now used the method of pasting my pics onto a black panel (640X480 or 704X480-.9pixel aspect)(in photoshop...not a black panel in VW) just to keep things tidy. Without it, showing a pic of, let's say, 600X400 would leave you with black space on the TV, but the screen isn't necessarily all that black and it's just not attractive.

 

The example I showed you previously was a different approach altogether of cropping the pic to fit inside the working space. This other way probably makes more sense to you. Geez..I hope I'm not confusing you more....

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Guest mlpasley
O.K. ml. So what I hear you suggesting is that if the photo that you insert into storyboard in VW is not 640 X 480 pixels, then there will always be some kind of black borders. Well, lets back up the bus for a minute. First off, When I have an original color photo that I want to scan (either using "Capture" within the program or scan it to my hard drive, the original size of the photo is not always 640 x 480. As a matter of fact it would just be coinsidental if it were exactly that size.

 

Now, if I use my photo editing program and change the original size (392 x 411 pixels) to 640 x 480 pixels and don't keep the "aspect ratio" option checked, the end result is that the photo is way out of kelter. And I'm really not sure about making a black panel and then placing a scanned photo on it. I can create a black color panel (of any color that's available in the program, including black) but you cannot place a photo in that same color panel. When you do that, the color panel moves to it's own place and the one you tried to place on it moves to it's own panel. What in the h*%l am I not seeing or doing right ?? I really thought I knew how to work the VW program and all it's options but evidently not.

 

I have beat this horse to death and still cannot come up with anything other than a panel that has black borders :) And vid2man97, I will play around with your suggestion (I think) and see what results I get. Thanks to all of you for sticking with and helping on this stupid problem I'm having.

 

Frank....(I probably should just have a few beers and forget the whole thing).

 

Sorry. I hear your frustration. :huh:

 

I wasn't suggesting that you could resize all your photos. I was just trying to find out if it was the pictures themselves or the way the photos were being imported. Apparently, no matter how you import them.... size matters when it comes to black borders.

 

Now about those black color panels..... remember, you're going to add the photos as an 'overlay'. You've got to switch to the 'Timeline View'. This won't work in the Storyline view.

 

Now right click on the top track and select 'insert color panel', adjust the duration to the time you want. Now do a Alt+C to copy the panel and Alt+V to paste multiple copies of the black panel on the storyline.

 

Click on the magnifying glass to make the timeline expand so that you can see where you're adding the pictures. Drag and drop the picture onto the overlay track.

 

I hope that makes sense. If not, just holler.

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Holler, Holler :)

O.K. ml I followed your suggestion to the "T".

I should start however by saying that I have scanned several color photos and saved them to my hard drive. Sizes were varied (8"x10", 5"x7" , 4"x6" etc.).

Next went and opened Videowave (7.5). Switched to "Timeline" view. Clicked on the top track and chose the option "Insert Color Panel" and chose Black. Then I copied and pasted several more color panels on the Story Board.

I magnified the Timeline view which gave me a much larger view of each of the color panels. Then I dragged and dropped several of my previously scanned photos onto the "Overlay" Track. BTW, I lined them up so they were on each of the colored panels. Although this didn't seem to matter.

 

Now when I go back to the first panel or beginning of my production, and run it, I STILL see the photos in the preview screen with black borders on them. Almost identical to all the other ways I have tried. The ONLY way I can succeed in getting each of the photos to fill the entire preview screen is in storyline view, click on "EDIT"--"MOTION PICTURES" and move the slider (minus side) so that the black boders are outside the selected re-size. Now when I view the photo in the preview screen the black borders are gone. However, I have also removed a larger portion of the original photo. N.G. !!!

 

Sorry ml if I am just to dumb to figure this out. I have even sent an e-mail to HP technical support advising them of my problem and asking if they have any idea where the scanner is possibly the problem for some reason. I haven't heard back yet but I'm sure I will. Not that they will have an answer but just to try and eliminate the scanner as the problem.

 

Frank....

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Ok Frank...I feel like I'm harrassing you but I have two more suggestions.

 

I think I mentioned before that (if) it's the scanner, it might have lost it's 'home'. Turn off the computer, and unplug (not just power off) the scanner for at least one minute.

 

Hopefully HP will have an answer for you but failing that in the meantime, there's one more thing.

 

When previewing your scan, deliberately add an inch or so of white 'nothing' all around your pic. When you get your final scan, you hopefully will have all of the pic, with some extraneous white and or black border that you can crop off. More work but at least you shouldn't lose any of your pic that way.

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Frank, I hope that vid is onto something here. I really do wish I was by my computer so I could test some stuff, myself. You are going to have to be the guinea pig, here.

 

If you have not done it already, try scanning those pictures at different resolutions, both higher and lower, than what you are using now.

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Vid2man97:

I didn't mean to neglect your suggestions, I just work with one at a time that's all. I did try using your idea of just placing some white sheets of paper all around the photo I was scanning, and made sure that the white material covered the entire space that the scanner size was set for. That actuall works :):huh: There was a slight bit of black around the sides where I placed the white paper, but I know if I had overlayed the white paper a bit over the entire photo, that probably wouldn't have happened. The fact that I would have to keep placing some white materail around every scan I made would be a little frustrating, especially when I have to scan every one manually and not using a ADF unit. And each photo is a different size. Anyway--Thanks for a suggestion that actually worked.

 

ml:

vid2man97's suggestion works O.K. but I found that if I chose the method of inserting a color Panel (in the Timeline view) and instead of choosing black, I changed to White. Then after inserting one of the black bordered original photo scans as an Overlay, I did an EDIT--OVERLAY on it and manipulated the size and width of the options and then moving the photo around a bit, I could accomplish the same thing as vid2man97's way. That way I don't have to keep moving the white paper material to fit each and every photo I scan just to cover each size.

Anyway, now in either case (ml or vid2man97) when I view the preview screen I get the photo I want, but now instead of a nasty black border, I get the photo with a pleasant white border which at least looks a lot better.

 

Now what I have found from vid2man97's suggestion was that if I have a photo to scan that covers all of the entire scan area that I have chose for my scanner to scan, I don't get any black borders. However if I scan a photo that is smaller than the area I set to scan, I get the black borders. So I guess it really does have something to do with the scanner.

 

This has been an exceptional and completely different problem than most and I really do appreciate all of the suggestions and help from all that have followed the post and given their suggestions. After having made a videowave production now and knowing how to get rid of nasty black borders when viewing a final DVD, it really looks pretty good with at least all white around the photo.

 

Bruce:

I am still wanting to see what you have to offer when you get back from your vacation. And make some comments of all I have expierenced with this HP 7400c scanner. :D

 

Now back to work..........

Frank....

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With the white paper as the clue.... did you remember to replace the white background pad on the scanner top after you last scanned slides or negatives? :huh:

 

Sorry for such a basic question but sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. :)

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Vid2man97:

I didn't mean to neglect your suggestions, I just work with one at a time that's all. I did try using your idea of just placing some white sheets of paper all around the photo I was scanning, and made sure that the white material covered the entire space that the scanner size was set for. That actuall works :):huh: There was a slight bit of black around the sides where I placed the white paper, but I know if I had overlayed the white paper a bit over the entire photo, that probably wouldn't have happened. The fact that I would have to keep placing some white materail around every scan I made would be a little frustrating, especially when I have to scan every one manually and not using a ADF unit. And each photo is a different size. Anyway--Thanks for a suggestion that actually worked.

 

ml:

vid2man97's suggestion works O.K. but I found that if I chose the method of inserting a color Panel (in the Timeline view) and instead of choosing black, I changed to White. Then after inserting one of the black bordered original photo scans as an Overlay, I did an EDIT--OVERLAY on it and manipulated the size and width of the options and then moving the photo around a bit, I could accomplish the same thing as vid2man97's way. That way I don't have to keep moving the white paper material to fit each and every photo I scan just to cover each size.

Anyway, now in either case (ml or vid2man97) when I view the preview screen I get the photo I want, but now instead of a nasty black border, I get the photo with a pleasant white border which at least looks a lot better.

 

Now what I have found from vid2man97's suggestion was that if I have a photo to scan that covers all of the entire scan area that I have chose for my scanner to scan, I don't get any black borders. However if I scan a photo that is smaller than the area I set to scan, I get the black borders. So I guess it really does have something to do with the scanner.

 

This has been an exceptional and completely different problem than most and I really do appreciate all of the suggestions and help from all that have followed the post and given their suggestions. After having made a videowave production now and knowing how to get rid of nasty black borders when viewing a final DVD, it really looks pretty good with at least all white around the photo.

 

Bruce:

I am still wanting to see what you have to offer when you get back from your vacation. And make some comments of all I have expierenced with this HP 7400c scanner. :D

 

Now back to work..........

Frank....

 

Hi Frank

Glad you found a work around you can live with for the time being. What i find interesting is if i put a photo on the story board thats been captured from my dig cam it fills the screen but from the scanner you end up with the black bars!

Anyway check out the general board I'll post the rod info. :D

I don't have to go back to work I sacked the boss last week. :D:D:D:D

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That's really ironic that you asked that question Steve. When I first started working on this problem, I thought that because the particular photo I was scanning was smaller than the scan area I has set, that it was possible that this might be the problem. However, I actually did think about that white faced panel and the fact that it is on the lid of the scanner, I just forgot about it. When Vid2man97 suggested that I cover the glass with a white sheet of paper, I began to wonder why the white face panel that is part of the scanner wouldn't do the same thing. Really wierd, as when I did what Vid suggested the darn thng actually worked. I still can't figure out why the white face that came with the scanner would do the same thing.

 

Anyway, thanks for suggesting that Steve. It is on the scanner to answer your question. Checking the manual, that white mat that comes with the scanner is exactly what it's for. When I checked to see how close the white pad is to the scanner glass, it's very tight on the glass when I close the lid. Go figure !!

 

Frank....

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That's really ironic that you asked that question Steve. When I first started working on this problem, I thought that because the particular photo I was scanning was smaller than the scan area I has set, that it was possible that this might be the problem. However, I actually did think about that white faced panel and the fact that it is on the lid of the scanner, I just forgot about it. When Vid2man97 suggested that I cover the glass with a white sheet of paper, I began to wonder why the white face panel that is part of the scanner wouldn't do the same thing. Really wierd, as when I did what Vid suggested the darn thng actually worked.

 

I still can't figure out why the white face that came with the scanner wouldn't do the same thing.

 

(---Frank...The difference is the scanner picks up on the edges of the paper. That's how it 'sees' something is there, even though it's just a blank piece of paper.

 

You could also try (without a piece of paper), to scan normally with just a slight twist. Normally, you would crop your photo just prior to hitting 'scan'. I assume like any other scanner the photo is surrounded by a dotted line. Now drag that line on all four sides to make your scan selection bigger than the pic.

Usually people crop in to compensate for poor autocropping on some scanners but in your case, you want it larger in order to fool the scanner into not making that black border issue. After the scan, you can crop any extraneous edges off of your pic. I hope.)

Edited by vid2man97

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Guest mlpasley

Thanks for sharing your solution, Frank. Hopefully, when I start scanning in photos in the next couple of weeks, I'll remember how you got it to work.

 

My scanner works the way vid2man97 described. If I grab the handles on the edges of the scanned image, I can enlarge the area to include the white space. Somewhere in the settings for my scanner is the option to set the size of the area to be scanned. You might check to see if the HP has a similar software setting.

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Actually ml, I really got a lot of help on this one, including some of the suggestions you made. I think between you and vid2man97 and all your suggestions, I just kept trying everything and finally I got some photos in a production that have white borders rather than the black ones. It just looks a whole lot better to me.

 

I do a lot of productions in Videowave and then on to DVD builder and then use the DVD, my HP notebook and my NEC projector to show the DVD's at parties, retirements, birthdays etc., including my own personal use and within the family.

 

I have done a lot of them with photos that have those black borders and no one has ever complained. But one evening after doing a particular retirement party for a college graduate friend of mine, I got to thinking about those black borders and decided that one day I would try and change all that. Well, the rest his history, thanks to all of you guys that offered your help. Thanks a million all. To answer your last question---Yes I can select just the area I want to scan. This HP 7400c is several years old now and I was thinking about purchasing another new one that has the ADF, transparency adapters, etc. but so far I haven't started searching for one. Any ideas ??

 

Frank....

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Using EMC 7.5 (updated). I have scanned about 50 hard copy photos (all color) using my HP Scanjet 7400C scanner. Some of the originals are 8 x 10, others are as small as 2x3. I have them all saved in a special folder as JPEG files. When I "Preview" them (XP Home/SP2) Most all of them have a black border on the left and right and sometimes on the top and bottom. This black area varies in width depending on the photo I select.

 

I have placed all of them in Videowave (Storyline view). When I preview the production, I get the same black borders on the photos, same as I did in XP preview mode. I am pretty sure this same problem was posted some time ago but I don't recall what the problem was or if there was a solution. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Frank....

 

Check this out Frank It might help

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Great bunch of reading Alan !! Especially the portion all about scanning. The part about what DPI to set, I had never stopped to think about, especially when it comes to scanned images that you are going to use in a DVD to show on a TV. A lot of the DVD's I make, I run through my notebook computer and then through my NEC digital projector for special projects I have made for weddings, parties, retirements, etc. So I usually see the images on a computer.

 

Anyway, I do thank you for sharing that web site and the information about scanning. And I'm sure there will be others that frequent this forum that will also gain in knowledge from the information as well. Kudos man, and thanks for all your help with my original problem !!!

 

cheers

Frank....

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Great bunch of reading Alan !! Especially the portion all about scanning. The part about what DPI to set, I had never stopped to think about, especially when it comes to scanned images that you are going to use in a DVD to show on a TV. A lot of the DVD's I make, I run through my notebook computer and then through my NEC digital projector for special projects I have made for weddings, parties, retirements, etc. So I usually see the images on a computer.

 

Anyway, I do thank you for sharing that web site and the information about scanning. And I'm sure there will be others that frequent this forum that will also gain in knowledge from the information as well. Kudos man, and thanks for all your help with my original problem !!!

 

cheers

Frank....

 

:) The DPI part is what I was trying to tell you to try, when I said try different resolutions. My terminology was fouled up. :huh: 2 days from now, and I will be home. Part good and part bad.

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I always set my on screen pics to 72 pixels per inch. It's easy too because Photoshop has a TV template to use. It's not really needed though because 72 pixels per inch is a myth and has nothing at all to do with how your pics look on the monitor or TV. Right now I can almost hear all the laughter but I don't have to prove anything...you can prove it for yourself.

 

If you have photo manipulation software that lets you rescale your pics, you can usually change the 'pixels per inch' (not dots per inch...that's for printing (apologies for being picky)).

Go ahead and scale a pic to, as an example, 1280X1024 @ 96 ppi (a fairly typical monitor resolution). Save it.

Now take the same pic and change the resolution to 10ppi. You might find the dimensions change so you'll have to type in 1280X1024 again. Save it.

 

Now take a look at the two pics on screen. I dare you to notice a difference. Now put them onto a DVD slideshow and watch it on the TV. Again, you'll see no difference.

 

So what's up? What happened to the 72ppi golden rule?

 

A display monitor only knows dimensions and really doesn't care about this pixel per inch issue. As long as you specify how many pixels high and wide you want the pic to be, that's what you'll see. So what's with the 72ppi or 96ppi or whatever 'resolution' issue? It all started back when someone decided they wanted to view text on a monitor and needed to set guidlines for font sizes. But 'ppi' has nothing to do whatso ever with the image displayed on a screen.

 

Now don't get confused with viewing a pic at its pixel dimension size. For example, if you have 3000X2000 @ 300 ppi, it'll look different when viewed at 'actual size'. But when viewed at screen dimensions, ppi just does not matter. The issue here is the screen pixel dimension.

 

Dots per inch...that's for printing and we all know what a 300 dpi 8X10 looks like compared to a 10dpi print (well I hope not...I'd hate to think anyone's printed an 8X10 at 10dpi..lol).

Edited by vid2man97

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This is all great stuff !!. And Bruce, I'm sorry I didn't pick up on your suggestion the way I should have. All the terminology is a little confusing. But reading all of vid2man97's posts and the web site he suggested going to really helps one. (Thanks again viid2man97).

 

And nice to see you back on a post Patty. I have read quite a few lately and hadn't seen your replies. Maybe that's because you frequent the ver. 8 program posts more than the 7/7.5 ones.

 

I hope everyone is having a great holiday weekend. And we will all be glad to see you back from your vacation Bruce. Then I will bug you for some more pointers in regards to your HP7400c.

 

Cheers

Frank....

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This is all great stuff !!. And Bruce, I'm sorry I didn't pick up on your suggestion the way I should have. All the terminology is a little confusing. But reading all of vid2man97's posts and the web site he suggested going to really helps one. (Thanks again viid2man97).

 

And nice to see you back on a post Patty. I have read quite a few lately and hadn't seen your replies. Maybe that's because you frequent the ver. 8 program posts more than the 7/7.5 ones.

 

I hope everyone is having a great holiday weekend. And we will all be glad to see you back from your vacation Bruce. Then I will bug you for some more pointers in regards to your HP7400c.

 

Cheers

Frank....

 

 

Hi Frank,

Actually I have been here, but there hasn't been either something I felt qualified to answer, or it has already been answered. I read them all though. Maybe I should just go in and say I agree, just so you know I am around. I have been following this one very closely. :) You have a great Holiday and stay safe. :huh:

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Hey Patty, you probably could have posted a reply but if I know you, it was not that you didn't know what to reply, but rather like you said. It was probably already posted by some one else . Alway great to see your posts Patty. I had no idea that this post would end up with this many replies but boy, I sure learned a lot and went to school on a lot of the readings.

 

I'm just staying home over the long holiday weekend, as this is no time to be out there on the busy highways with all those nutty drivers !! Just having fun seeing all my kids, Bar-B-Q'ing and will watch the indy 500 race tomorrow.

 

Stay cool and have fun too :)

 

Frank....

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Hey Patty, you probably could have posted a reply but if I know you, it was not that you didn't know what to reply, but rather like you said. It was probably already posted by some one else . Alway great to see your posts Patty. I had no idea that this post would end up with this many replies but boy, I sure learned a lot and went to school on a lot of the readings.

 

I'm just staying home over the long holiday weekend, as this is no time to be out there on the busy highways with all those nutty drivers !! Just having fun seeing all my kids, Bar-B-Q'ing and will watch the indy 500 race tomorrow.

 

Stay cool and have fun too :)

 

Frank....

 

I hope that you have a good day with the kids, Frank. I will miss the Indy. I will be flying home tomorrow. It has been a wonderful 9 days of seeing my son and his family, but it has been cold as all get out, here. Today, the high was 45, and it was 82 at home. We came out here to warm up. LOLLOL

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