Dell 8200 CD-RW Eject Problem

[caranheim]

I have a Dell 8200 desktop running Windows XP, SP3. A problem developed where I cannot eject a CD-RW disk from my CD RW device. The device manager has the drive listed as HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8400B. The Dell Spec sheet says it is a 40x/10x/40x CD-RW drive. My present ROXIO level is v.5.3.5.10.

This is the problem: I normally backup some files to a CD-RW disk using "Copy & Paste" (from c drive to CD drive), then manually eject the CD or eject it via the eject option from "My Computer". Now, for some reason, I cannot eject a CD-RW disk from my drive unless I do it during a restart, by pressing the eject button the drive itself. This does not happen with a CD-R disk. I am able to load a movie CD, a program CD (Turbotax), a CD disk, or even a blank CD-RW disk, and eject it without a problem. However, when I load a CD-RW disk with recorded data on it, it will not eject. While the disk is in the machine, I can read and write on it OK, but have to do a reatart and keep pressing the eject button to remove it. I have not done any software changes other that install TurboTax, and any critical updates to Windows XP. Does ROXIO come into play when I manually load and try to reject the CD-RW disk from the drive without updating it? Is Roxio used for a simple copy & past operation? I am trying to determine if a have a drive problem or a software problem of some kind. Your help will be appreciated very much. Charles Ranheim

 

 

[gi7omy]

If one of the 'critical' updates was IE7, that's probably killed the suite.

 

Also, if you are using drag and drop (presumably on a UDF formatted disc), XP has its own built in app to do that (not quite as unreliable as Take2/Drag to Disc) but still, any RW storage using UDF format is disaster prone

 

However, what may be happening is that the packet writing app is taking control of the disc - you may have to use task manager to close it down - once done, disable it from start-up using msconfig - that way it can be manually loaded without the OS taking over

[lynn98109]

<snip>

This is the problem: I normally backup some files to a CD-RW disk using "Copy & Paste" (from c drive to CD drive), then manually eject the CD or eject it via the eject option from "My Computer". Now, for some reason, I cannot eject a CD-RW disk from my drive unless I do it during a restart, by pressing the eject button the drive itself. This does not happen with a CD-R disk. I am able to load a movie CD, a program CD (Turbotax), a CD disk, or even a blank CD-RW disk, and eject it without a problem. However, when I load a CD-RW disk with recorded data on it, it will not eject. While the disk is in the machine, I can read and write on it OK, but have to do a reatart and keep pressing the eject button to remove it. I have not done any software changes other that install TurboTax, and any critical updates to Windows XP. Does ROXIO come into play when I manually load and try to reject the CD-RW disk from the drive without updating it? Is Roxio used for a simple copy & past operation? I am trying to determine if a have a drive problem or a software problem of some kind. Your help will be appreciated very much. Charles Ranheim

It is possible the RW disc has done about as many changes as it is going to, and will fail altogether shortly. If you can still read the data, and it is important, I'd suggest you copy it to R media using either Roxio's data disc function, or the built-in WinXP CD writing (search help for 'make a CD'), both of which are sessions-based and MUCH more stable.

 

RW doesn't mean the disc is "like a floppy", it means it can be completely erased and re-used for something else. If used to test things, if it doesn't work out you can always erase and re-use. If whatever does work out, save to R media.

 

R media is stable, unlike RW media. However, nobody could convince me of that until I lost the disc, and all of what was on it that wasn't already on the Hard Drive.

 

Some people have gone for a long time without that happening. However, when it finally does, they have a lot of excitment, none of which gets the data back.

 

One of the regular Digital Gurus will probably come along and assure you DirectCD is quite safe, and it's fine to use it (because he knows the appropriate times to use it, and NOT for long-term storage). OK, you do it at your own risk.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

If one of the 'critical' updates was IE7, that's probably killed the suite.

 

Also, if you are using drag and drop (presumably on a UDF formatted disc), XP has its own built in app to do that (not quite as unreliable as Take2/Drag to Disc) but still, any RW storage using UDF format is disaster prone

 

However, what may be happening is that the packet writing app is taking control of the disc - you may have to use task manager to close it down - once done, disable it from start-up using msconfig - that way it can be manually loaded without the OS taking over

 

I updated from IE6 to IE8 this fall. I can't be sure if the problem started before or after that update. Please explain the statement "If one of the 'critical' updates was IE7, that's probably killed the suite." What suite did it kill? Was it Roxio or some other program. I do not have a lot of PC experience, and do not understand the part about using the task manager to close down some "Packet writing application" Is this a workaround or a fix to my problem. What do I need to do so that I can return to the state where I can eject the disks correctly again. Would installing a new level of Roxio fix the problem? Thanks again. Charles Ranheim

 

 

[gi7omy]

IE7 and later trashed earlier versions of EMC - it's as simple as that

 

IE7 was a backport from Vista (along with WMP10) and caused a lot of problems

 

If you are using, as you call it, 'drag and drop' (I'm not sure if you are using Take2, Drag to Disc or the built-in XP sessions software), you should know that the UDF format (used by Take 2 and D2D) is inherently flaky - the session writing software under XP is a different matter and is (generally) more reliable.

 

You should also be aware that RW discs have a limited erase/reqwrite capacity

[lynn98109]

IE7 and later trashed earlier versions of EMC - it's as simple as that

 

IE7 was a backport from Vista (along with WMP10) and caused a lot of problems

 

If you are using, as you call it, 'drag and drop' (I'm not sure if you are using Take2, Drag to Disc or the built-in XP sessions software), you should know that the UDF format (used by Take 2 and D2D) is inherently flaky - the session writing software under XP is a different matter and is (generally) more reliable.

 

You should also be aware that RW discs have a limited erase/reqwrite capacity

The Packet-Writing program in ECDC 4 and 5 was DirectCD. Take Two is a system backup program that was deleted by updates because it didn't go down well with WinXP.

 

However, only the person using the PC - caranheim - can determine if the disc is being formatted (DirectCD - UDF, Packet-Writing) or if the WinXP built-in burning is being used (Sessions-based burning). The answers are quite different.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

The Packet-Writing program in ECDC 4 and 5 was DirectCD. Take Two is a system backup program that was deleted by updates because it didn't go down well with WinXP.

 

However, only the person using the PC - caranheim - can determine if the disc is being formatted (DirectCD - UDF, Packet-Writing) or if the WinXP built-in burning is being used (Sessions-based burning). The answers are quite different.

 

Lynn

 

I just realized something else changed with the way files are written on the CD-RW disk. Before the problem, when I did a copy and paste from the c: drive to the CD-RW drive, the reading and writing seemed to occur at the same time. When I do it now to a new CD-RW disk, it appears to copy all the data first, then a message comes up saying “You have files waiting to be written to the CD. When I click on the option on the left side of the screen to write to the CD, a Wizard comes up, and indicates it is doing some preparation as well as writing the data to the disk. When this finishes, the data on the disk is good, and it will eject normally. Also, when I look at the properties of the disk, it says the File System is “CDFS”.

When I load one of my previous disks that copied the data quickly without the wizard coming up, the file system is “CDUDFRW”. I can read the data OK, but I cannot eject this disk with the CDUDFRW file system. This must be why I could load and eject a clean CD-RW. It had no CDUDFRW data. The ones that no longer eject are the ones that were written in the past (the normal copy and paste) in the CDUDFRW file system.

 

I hope this additional information helps figure out what happened, and how to fix it. It appears if I could get back to the old working enviroment, it would write in the CDUDFRW file system without the Wizard coming up, and it would eject properly. Now it writes in the CDFS file system, and will no longer eject a CD-RW that had been created with the CDUDFRW file system. I hope this makes some sense to you. I have no idea where to go from here. I can only report what I see. Charles Ranheim

 

 

[lynn98109]

I just realized something else changed with the way files are written on the CD-RW disk. Before the problem, when I did a copy and paste from the c: drive to the CD-RW drive, the reading and writing seemed to occur at the same time. When I do it now to a new CD-RW disk, it appears to copy all the data first, then a message comes up saying “You have files waiting to be written to the CD. When I click on the option on the left side of the screen to write to the CD, a Wizard comes up, and indicates it is doing some preparation as well as writing the data to the disk. When this finishes, the data on the disk is good, and it will eject normally. Also, when I look at the properties of the disk, it says the File System is “CDFS”.

When I load one of my previous disks that copied the data quickly without the wizard coming up, the file system is “CDUDFRW”. I can read the data OK, but I cannot eject this disk with the CDUDFRW file system. This must be why I could load and eject a clean CD-RW. It had no CDUDFRW data. The ones that no longer eject are the ones that were written in the past (the normal copy and paste) in the CDUDFRW file system.

 

I hope this additional information helps figure out what happened, and how to fix it. It appears if I could get back to the old working enviroment, it would write in the CDUDFRW file system without the Wizard coming up, and it would eject properly. Now it writes in the CDFS file system, and will no longer eject a CD-RW that had been created with the CDUDFRW file system. I hope this makes some sense to you. I have no idea where to go from here. I can only report what I see. Charles Ranheim

You are currently using the built-in WinXP burning system, which is in Sessions, and if you use R media, is an excellent way to archive data for the long term.

 

The previous discs have been made with DirectCD, that is, with Packet-Writing, which has a tendancy to fail without notice. Using RW discs increase the risk that you will lose all the data - RW media is for short-term use like testing things. "RW" does not mean you can erase individual files and recover the space, any more than if you use R media - it means you can erase the ENTIRE disc and start over.

 

I'd suggest you copy ALL of your data to R media (assuming you want to keep it long-term rather than, say, transfer the files to a different computer with the originals still safely on the orlginal computer). The sooner the better, since you are using two methods that are both known to lose data without notice - Packet-Writng and RW media.

 

However, as I said earlier, I wouldn't believe that until I lost the data I was keeping using DirectCD and RW media. If you want to learn the hard way too, that's up to you.

 

A few more details here -

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=12382

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

You are currently using the built-in WinXP burning system, which is in Sessions, and if you use R media, is an excellent way to archive data for the long term.

 

The previous discs have been made with DirectCD, that is, with Packet-Writing, which has a tendancy to fail without notice. Using RW discs increase the risk that you will lose all the data - RW media is for short-term use like testing things. "RW" does not mean you can erase individual files and recover the space, any more than if you use R media - it means you can erase the ENTIRE disc and start over.

 

I'd suggest you copy ALL of your data to R media (assuming you want to keep it long-term rather than, say, transfer the files to a different computer with the originals still safely on the orlginal computer). The sooner the better, since you are using two methods that are both known to lose data without notice - Packet-Writng and RW media.

 

However, as I said earlier, I wouldn't believe that until I lost the data I was keeping using DirectCD and RW media. If you want to learn the hard way too, that's up to you.

 

A few more details here -

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=12382

 

Lynn

 

 

I certainly appreciate your information about the reliability of the RW media. I had been using them to temporarily hold backups from my C drive, until the CD filled up, then I copied it to a CD-R for a safer backup. Now, back to my problem. Do you have any idea what changed in my PC to make my recording type change, along with the fact I can't eject a CD-RW that has data on it? Did something happen to my Roxio software? What would I have to do to get back to where it was before? I afraid I have a sleeping dog in my PC. I was told by someone else I needed to upgrade my Roxio software to fix the problem. It was mentioned before that going to IE 7 can cause this problem because of the down level Roxio I am using. Three months ago, I went from IE6 to IE8. I can't prove exactly when this problem started, because I had been doing full backups once a month using Acronis. This is why I had been doing less backups on the CD-RW disks. If this is the problem, I certainly will upgrade my Roxio software. Again, your help is appreciated. I am not a PC guru, just a PC user with some basic knowledge.

 

Charles Ranheim

[gi7omy]

IE7 is a backport from Vista to XP (and IE8 is from Windows 7).

 

Both of these caused problems with earlier Roxio apps in that some parts failed to work correctly due to registry changes.

 

Personally I'd roll back to IE6 and leave it there (I normally use Firefox as a browser so the 'critical' update wasn't really critical. Aside from that, MS actually brought out a 'IE7 blocker' to stop IE7 going in automatically, which makes one wonder just HOW 'critical' the update really was)

 

The fact that the disc won't eject when used with Roxio, but will under other apps makes me think something has changed along the line (especially if it did work before)

[caranheim]

IE7 is a backport from Vista to XP (and IE8 is from Windows 7).

 

Both of these caused problems with earlier Roxio apps in that some parts failed to work correctly due to registry changes.

 

Personally I'd roll back to IE6 and leave it there (I normally use Firefox as a browser so the 'critical' update wasn't really critical. Aside from that, MS actually brought out a 'IE7 blocker' to stop IE7 going in automatically, which makes one wonder just HOW 'critical' the update really was)

 

The fact that the disc won't eject when used with Roxio, but will under other apps makes me think something has changed along the line (especially if it did work before)

 

I would rather not go back to IE6, because IE8 runs much cleaner that IE6. The people at a CNET Dell forum feel strongly that the problem is caused by using my downlevel version of Roxio, (v5.3.5.10) and IE7 or IE8. They want me to get a later version of Roxio. Do you have any suggestions as to what level of Roxio I should get to be above the known problems I am experiencing? Charles Ranheim

[gi7omy]

As I said, dump IE8 and install Firefox instead - you need at least IE6 for MS updates so don't get rid of it completely.

 

I have IE8 on this (W7) machine but I prefer Firefox for a lot of reasons.

 

You can upgrade Roxio - but with IE8, you will have to go to (at the very least) EMC9 The current version is Creator 2010

[ogdens]

I would rather not go back to IE6, because IE8 runs much cleaner that IE6. The people at a CNET Dell forum feel strongly that the problem is caused by using my downlevel version of Roxio, (v5.3.5.10) and IE7 or IE8. They want me to get a later version of Roxio. Do you have any suggestions as to what level of Roxio I should get to be above the known problems I am experiencing? Charles Ranheim

 

It was suggested twice on here to try using the built in burning in XP, did you try that yet.

 

If you require more versatility than the XP gives you, tell us what you want do do with a newer version, and maybe we can recommend a program.

[lynn98109]

It was suggested twice on here to try using the built in burning in XP, did you try that yet.

 

If you require more versatility than the XP gives you, tell us what you want do do with a newer version, and maybe we can recommend a program.

Actually, from OP's description, it sounds like it has defaulted to WinXP's burning.

 

WinXP's Session-based discs can be added to unless closed "to be readable aon any computer". In practice, most computers these days can read unclosed discs since they can write them.

 

As to the virtures of using Packet-Writing - or RW media, or the two in combination - if replacing the data would cost more than the 15 cents or less it costs for an R disc by the spindle, it might be better to use R media and a Sessions-based program whether you add to the disc later or not.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

Lynn

You said "It was suggested twice to try the built in burning in XP" Can you tell me how to do this? As you stated, it may have defaulted to WinXP's burning. The part I never understood was how Roxio came into play when I did a copy and paste (at least I am beginning to believe this was happening). Is there some option in windows (or Roxio) that controls what software is used during a copy and paste operation? By the way, now that it is burning from XP, I tried burning to a CD-R disk instead of a CD-RW. It burns in CDFS format instead of CDUDFRW. Does this limit where it can be read? I also tried writing to the same R disk more than once. It looked like it recorded OK, but when I looked at the byte counts using "properties", the counts were incorrect after adding more data to the same disk. This means I lost the ability to tell how much free space was on the CD-R after multiple writes. The counts were completely wrong. I also tried burning to a new CD-RW disk. It burned in the CDFS format, and I could eject it when I finished. From what I can see, the eject only fails if I load a CD-RW disk with data in a CDUDFRW format.

I sure would appreciate it if you would tell me how to control whether Roxio or WinXP does the recording. I always thought a copy and past was done by windows, and that Roxio would only do the burning if I started the program and did something like a disk copy (Which still seems to work). Have you ever seen anything so confusing? If I knew my down level Roxio was causing the problem, it might be better to install a more current level. The only risk to that is that I would probably have to completely remove my existing Roxio, and find a new one that would be compatible with my PC.

Charles

 

[lynn98109]

Lynn

You said "It was suggested twice to try the built in burning in XP" Can you tell me how to do this? As you stated, it may have defaulted to WinXP's burning. The part I never understood was how Roxio came into play when I did a copy and paste (at least I am beginning to believe this was happening). Is there some option in windows (or Roxio) that controls what software is used during a copy and paste operation? By the way, now that it is burning from XP, I tried burning to a CD-R disk instead of a CD-RW. It burns in CDFS format instead of CDUDFRW. Does this limit where it can be read? I also tried writing to the same R disk more than once. It looked like it recorded OK, but when I looked at the byte counts using "properties", the counts were incorrect after adding more data to the same disk. This means I lost the ability to tell how much free space was on the CD-R after multiple writes. The counts were completely wrong. I also tried burning to a new CD-RW disk. It burned in the CDFS format, and I could eject it when I finished. From what I can see, the eject only fails if I load a CD-RW disk with data in a CDUDFRW format.

I sure would appreciate it if you would tell me how to control whether Roxio or WinXP does the recording. I always thought a copy and past was done by windows, and that Roxio would only do the burning if I started the program and did something like a disk copy (Which still seems to work). Have you ever seen anything so confusing? If I knew my down level Roxio was causing the problem, it might be better to install a more current level. The only risk to that is that I would probably have to completely remove my existing Roxio, and find a new one that would be compatible with my PC.

Charles

It was ogdens, not me, who said it had been suggested you try WinXP buring. To me it was clear that is what you are using.

 

If you format a CD, it will thereafter grab the burning process. Packet-Writing, as has been said, is a VERY RISKY way to store data.

 

I think you need to get over the idea that there is some difference between CD-R and CD-RW for burning purposes. You burn the same way. With either, if you "delete" something it is merely removed form the TOC (Table of Contents), the space remains occupied. Both can have multi-session discs. The difference is you can erase the ENTIRE RW disc and use it for something else - a difference in the way it is constructed which result in a less stable disc - that means, it can blank out on you without notice. If you want to KEEP the data, DO NOT use RW. It may hold up for years - or it may not. R is much more reliable.

 

If you "upgrade" by buying a newer Version of Roxio, that will NOT allow you to make .udf discs with Packet-Writing, because Packet-Writing was removed after EMC 9. There is NO Packet-Writing program in EMC 10, Creator 2009, or Creator 2010. If you want to use Packet-Writing after that point, you will need to get Vista or Win7.

 

Yes, you do lose a little extra space with multi-session burning because there is some overhead lost to setup on the first disc, and I think it's about 5MB for each additional session. You don't lose that with Packet-Writing, but you lose a chunk of disc space to the formatting before you put any info on, so I don't think it's that big an issue.

 

Perhaps someone more familiar with WinXP (I turn it on once a month to update the Operating System, and use Win2000 the rest of the time) will step in to explain how to set the default burning program. However, it sounds to me that your 'problem' is you are making higher quality (less-risky) backups. If you can afford to lose the data, you can save discs by using RW media. If it's important enough that you want to minimize risk, use R media.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

It was ogdens, not me, who said it had been suggested you try WinXP buring. To me it was clear that is what you are using.

 

If you format a CD, it will thereafter grab the burning process. Packet-Writing, as has been said, is a VERY RISKY way to store data.

 

I think you need to get over the idea that there is some difference between CD-R and CD-RW for burning purposes. You burn the same way. With either, if you "delete" something it is merely removed form the TOC (Table of Contents), the space remains occupied. Both can have multi-session discs. The difference is you can erase the ENTIRE RW disc and use it for something else - a difference in the way it is constructed which result in a less stable disc - that means, it can blank out on you without notice. If you want to KEEP the data, DO NOT use RW. It may hold up for years - or it may not. R is much more reliable.

 

If you "upgrade" by buying a newer Version of Roxio, that will NOT allow you to make .udf discs with Packet-Writing, because Packet-Writing was removed after EMC 9. There is NO Packet-Writing program in EMC 10, Creator 2009, or Creator 2010. If you want to use Packet-Writing after that point, you will need to get Vista or Win7.

 

Yes, you do lose a little extra space with multi-session burning because there is some overhead lost to setup on the first disc, and I think it's about 5MB for each additional session. You don't lose that with Packet-Writing, but you lose a chunk of disc space to the formatting before you put any info on, so I don't think it's that big an issue.

 

Perhaps someone more familiar with WinXP (I turn it on once a month to update the Operating System, and use Win2000 the rest of the time) will step in to explain how to set the default burning program. However, it sounds to me that your 'problem' is you are making higher quality (less-risky) backups. If you can afford to lose the data, you can save discs by using RW media. If it's important enough that you want to minimize risk, use R media.

 

Lynn

 

Lynn,

Again I want to thank you for responding to my problem. You convinced me to stop using CD-RW disks for temporary storage as I had been doing for many years. I guess I will never know what happened that started the eject failures. I still have no idea how it went from "UDF" recording to WinXP CD burning. Is it possible that Roxio was in control during the UDF recording, then, because of some software problem in Roxio, it defaulted to the WinXP recording? This is why I asked how I can select which type of recording will take place.

I tried using a CD-R disk using multiple recording sessions as I had been doing with a CD-RW. I was able to do multiple recording sessions, using the "Default" WinXP software. The only problem I could see was that after multiple sessions, I could not determine now much free space I had left on the CD-R disk, because the counts shown using the properties menu were incorrect. The other condition I am left with is that once I load a CD-RW disk with UDF recording on it, it will not eject. I don't know if this is a Roxio code problem or a WinXP code problem, because I don't know who was in control when I try the eject.

Please understand I am not determined to use CD-RW disks and recording in UDF format. If my PC didn't go into WinXP burn mode for a reason I don't understand, I would have been locked into using the UDF format.

You made a comment "If you format a CD, it will thereafter grab the burning process". Are you saying just formating the CD will somehow set the recording mode? I had tried different disks without formating them. Perhaps this is what caused the switch.

Based on what you told me about the new levels of Roxio, I probably will hold off an upgrade as recommended by a person on a CNET Dell forum. He claimed fixing many eject problems by going to the higher Roxio level. Has this (the eject problem) been a known issue with my Roxio v 5.3.5.10? If I went to the higher level of Roxio, it would be an attempt to fix the eject problem, not to record in UDF format on a CR-RW disk as I had been doing. I am not sure I have all the system requirements to go to the higher levels of Roxio.

Thanks again for your help and understanding. Charles Ranheim

[lynn98109]

Lynn,

<snip>Is it possible that Roxio was in control during the UDF recording, then, because of some software problem in Roxio, it defaulted to the WinXP recording? <snip>

 

<snip> ... after multiple sessions, I could not determine now much free space I had left on the CD-R disk, because the counts shown using the properties menu were incorrect.

 

The other condition I am left with is that once I load a CD-RW disk with UDF recording on it, it will not eject.

<snip>

 

You made a comment "If you format a CD, it will thereafter grab the burning process". Are you saying just formating the CD will somehow set the recording mode? I had tried different disks without formating them. Perhaps this is what caused the switch.

Based on what you told me about the new levels of Roxio, I probably will hold off an upgrade as recommended by a person on a CNET Dell forum. He claimed fixing many eject problems by going to the higher Roxio level. Has this (the eject problem) been a known issue with my Roxio v 5.3.5.10? If I went to the higher level of Roxio, it would be an attempt to fix the eject problem, not to record in UDF format on a CR-RW disk as I had been doing. I am not sure I have all the system requirements to go to the higher levels of Roxio.

Thanks again for your help and understanding. Charles Ranheim

Roxio (or other third-party software) would be the only way WinXP could be making .udf discs - there is no .udf burning capability in WinXP. Someone once said it was because Microsoft didn't want to deal with the inevitible complaints about lost data. Microsoft has subsequently added a "udf 2.0" burning to Vista. I've not been around Forums where it would be discussed if that fails like the .udf I once used.

 

The way to determine how much free space is left is by clicking "properties" with the right-click menu of the mouse, or any of the other ways of getting to properties. Always assume you have a little less space than it says. And again, how much would it cost to replace the data if it disappeared VS how much does a CD-R cost?

 

A formatted CD is a .udf CD, and usually will only work with the program that formatted it - most of the time different Versions of the same program won't recognize it and if they do, usually just to read, not write. An unformatted blank disc can be used for a number of things.

 

One thing that can cause an eject problem is if the disc is failing, or if the formatting is failing, or if the disc was previously ejected prematurely. It may be a prelude to the Blue Screen of Death, after which the disc will be unreadable but will continue to cause the Blue Screen of Death until you give in and give up.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

Roxio (or other third-party software) would be the only way WinXP could be making .udf discs - there is no .udf burning capability in WinXP. Someone once said it was because Microsoft didn't want to deal with the inevitible complaints about lost data. Microsoft has subsequently added a "udf 2.0" burning to Vista. I've not been around Forums where it would be discussed if that fails like the .udf I once used.

 

The way to determine how much free space is left is by clicking "properties" with the right-click menu of the mouse, or any of the other ways of getting to properties. Always assume you have a little less space than it says. And again, how much would it cost to replace the data if it disappeared VS how much does a CD-R cost?

 

A formatted CD is a .udf CD, and usually will only work with the program that formatted it - most of the time different Versions of the same program won't recognize it and if they do, usually just to read, not write. An unformatted blank disc can be used for a number of things.

 

One thing that can cause an eject problem is if the disc is failing, or if the formatting is failing, or if the disc was previously ejected prematurely. It may be a prelude to the Blue Screen of Death, after which the disc will be unreadable but will continue to cause the Blue Screen of Death until you give in and give up.

 

Lynn

Please understand I am not fighting the recommendation to use CD-R disks instead of CD-RWs. I fully agree with what you are saying. I am just trying to figure out what happened in my system to cause Roxio to stop writing the disk during a copy and paste, and perhaps cause the eject failure.

 

I indicated in my last post how I used the disk properties screen to determine how much space I had left. I copied folders from a CD in my rom drive to a CD-R disk, so I knew what counts to expect (within reason). After doing the second write session to the same CD-R disk, the used count went down instead of up as I expected to happen. Perhaps the used count no longer represents the total used on the disk, but only shows the count used on the last write.

 

I know my eject problem is not a bad disk, because all of my CD-RW disks with the UDF format already written will fail to eject after just loading them. It seems like when the disk loads and starts to auto read, the software can no longer handle the UDF format coming from a CD-RW disk, and it locks up. What is really strange is the fact that I can load a CD-R disk with UDF data on it, and it ejects normally. The lockup only occures on CD-RW disks with UDF format on my writeable drive.

 

It seems like either I have a bad drive, or Roxio somehow hangs up when it sees the data coming from it. When I look at the data on the locked disk, it is OK, which seems to imply the drive is OK.

Am I wrong in my thinking? Is there an level 2 person on your team that might have seen this problem?

 

I certainly appreciate you hanging in there with me. I know it is a difficult problem that requires more expertise than I have.

Charles Ranheim

 

[lynn98109]

I see no-one else has answered, so I will give my thoughts.

 

ECDC 5 is a 1999 program, and the last updates (aside from recognizing some newer burners at the end of 2004) was in spring 2003. (If you have added a new burner, that could be the problem, too.)

 

You are running WinXP SP3. Adding SP3 has caused problems with ECDC 5. IE 7 (and IE 8 is merely an improved IE 7), and WInPlayer 10 or higher are known to cause serious problems with EMC 7, 7.5, and 8, if not reported quite as often with ECDC 5.

 

You have not lost any data, like some frantic posters who are desperate to get back critical data or irreplaceble photos. (Usually, they can't.)

 

I'd suggest you count your blessings and move on.

 

Lynn

[caranheim]

I see no-one else has answered, so I will give my thoughts.

 

ECDC 5 is a 1999 program, and the last updates (aside from recognizing some newer burners at the end of 2004) was in spring 2003. (If you have added a new burner, that could be the problem, too.)

 

You are running WinXP SP3. Adding SP3 has caused problems with ECDC 5. IE 7 (and IE 8 is merely an improved IE 7), and WInPlayer 10 or higher are known to cause serious problems with EMC 7, 7.5, and 8, if not reported quite as often with ECDC 5.

 

You have not lost any data, like some frantic posters who are desperate to get back critical data or irreplaceble photos. (Usually, they can't.)

 

I'd suggest you count your blessings and move on.

 

Lynn

 

I certainly want to move on, and want to get away from using CD-RW disks, not because I have ever lost data, but because I can't eject them from my drive. I guess I will never know why that is happening, or how to fix it.

I have asked the following question many times in several ways, but never got the answer. Perhaps someone out there can address it. My question is this: You know I have Roxio on my PC running WindowsXP. When I do a "copy and paste" to a CD, what determines which software completes the task. (Roxio or WinXP)? How can I tell who did it, and is there any way (via Roxio or Windows) that I can control who handles the copy and paste? It sure would be nice to know how to control who is in contol, and how to control the format (UDF or CDFS) of what is being recorded. Hopefully, from the Roxio side, you can tell me how Roxio decides what part it will play in a copy and paste operation. Charles Ranheim

 

[ogdens]

I certainly want to move on, and want to get away from using CD-RW disks, not because I have ever lost data, but because I can't eject them from my drive. I guess I will never know why that is happening, or how to fix it.

I have asked the following question many times in several ways, but never got the answer. Perhaps someone out there can address it. My question is this: You know I have Roxio on my PC running WindowsXP. When I do a "copy and paste" to a CD, what determines which software completes the task. (Roxio or WinXP)? How can I tell who did it, and is there any way (via Roxio or Windows) that I can control who handles the copy and paste? It sure would be nice to know how to control who is in contol, and how to control the format (UDF or CDFS) of what is being recorded. Hopefully, from the Roxio side, you can tell me how Roxio decides what part it will play in a copy and paste operation. Charles Ranheim

 

 

When you are using "copy and paste" Xp will be do the writing and it will be in CDFS format

(Short for CD-ROM File System), whether your using CD-R or CD-RW's. (

 

If you wanted to use Roxio to write a Cd/RW you would open the Roxio program.

 

When using Roxio you have two methods of creating a data cd.

 

1.- From the Easy Cd Create Project you would click on Make a Data CD and then follow direction, this would create a Cd in the CDFS format.

 

2. -Direct CD - This method formats the CD (CD-R/CD-RW's)so you can directly copy files to it in much the same manner as you do when using XP. The files are written in UDF (Universal Disc Format), which is called "packet writing')

 

Once a disc has been formated in Direct Cd, when a formatted disc is inserted into the CD Burner the Direct CD Burning software locks the drive so the burn write process can start straight away, the drawer of the drive may not respond when you press the eject button.

 

To eject a formatted disc use the option within Roxio Direct CD.

 

I don't know why you are only having trouble with the RW's.

 

It could be "how" you closed out the CD:

 

• Leave As Is - Leave the CD as it is so it can be read and written to as a drive letter. Computer that has a cd writer along with the directCD software installed will be able to use the CD as a drive letter. Standard CD-ROM drives will not be able to read the CD until it has been closed.
• Close to UDF v1.5 - Close the CD so it can be read on most CD-ROM drives after installing a UDF v1.5 Reader. This will allow you to come back at a later time to add more files to the disk. But this disk can only be read by the CDRW drive that it has been created on. That is until you close the disk to read on any computer.
• Close to Read on Any Computer - Close the CD so it can be read in most standard CD-ROM drives. Once you close a cd, you can't add any additional files to it.

I would recommend you copy the data from the RW discs (in case you have more problems) you have, to your HD, then re-write it to new discs using XP or Roxio's Make a Data CD

 

I don't have ECDC 5 installed anymore but if you open up the Direct CD program and click on the Help there should be some info there that may explain more in detail, or just Google "direct cd formatting".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caranheim]

When you are using "copy and paste" Xp will be do the writing and it will be in CDFS format

(Short for CD-ROM File System), whether your using CD-R or CD-RW's. (

 

If you wanted to use Roxio to write a Cd/RW you would open the Roxio program.

 

When using Roxio you have two methods of creating a data cd.

 

1.- From the Easy Cd Create Project you would click on Make a Data CD and then follow direction, this would create a Cd in the CDFS format.

 

2. -Direct CD - This method formats the CD (CD-R/CD-RW's)so you can directly copy files to it in much the same manner as you do when using XP. The files are written in UDF (Universal Disc Format), which is called "packet writing')

 

Once a disc has been formated in Direct Cd, when a formatted disc is inserted into the CD Burner the Direct CD Burning software locks the drive so the burn write process can start straight away, the drawer of the drive may not respond when you press the eject button.

 

To eject a formatted disc use the option within Roxio Direct CD.

 

I don't know why you are only having trouble with the RW's.

 

It could be "how" you closed out the CD:

 

• Leave As Is - Leave the CD as it is so it can be read and written to as a drive letter. Computer that has a cd writer along with the directCD software installed will be able to use the CD as a drive letter. Standard CD-ROM drives will not be able to read the CD until it has been closed.
• Close to UDF v1.5 - Close the CD so it can be read on most CD-ROM drives after installing a UDF v1.5 Reader. This will allow you to come back at a later time to add more files to the disk. But this disk can only be read by the CDRW drive that it has been created on. That is until you close the disk to read on any computer.
• Close to Read on Any Computer - Close the CD so it can be read in most standard CD-ROM drives. Once you close a cd, you can't add any additional files to it.

If this is a concern, you could copy the data from the RW discs you have to your HD, then re-write it to new discs using XP or Roxio's Make a Data CD

 

I don't have ECDC 5 installed anymore but if you open up the Direct CD program and click on the Help there should be some info there that may explain more in detail, or just Google "direct cd formatting".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your first statement: "When you are using "copy and paste" Xp will be do the writing and it will be in CDFS format

(Short for CD-ROM File System), whether your using CD-R or CD-RW's," was not happening on my system. I had been doing a "Copy and Paste" from data on my C: drive to a CD-RW disk for years, and it had been writing in the UDF format. This is why I thought Roxio had control of the copying process. (I believe someone said WinXP can only write in the CDFS format, leading me to believe Roxio was in control) Then, for some reason unknown to me, any CD-RD disk that I loaded in my drive that contained data in UDF format would not eject with the front botton or through the eject option in My Computer. Now, when I do a copy and paste, it reads the input data first, then starts a Wizard to write the data to the disk. Before, when I did the copy and paste, it appeared to read and write at the same time. I payed no attention to what format was on the CD-RW until I was asked about it. It now appeared WinXP was in control.

I have no objections to use CD-R disks from now on, but I wanted to know how to control who (Roxio or WinXP) does the copy and paste. By the way I have started Roxio in the past to do a "Disk Copy". Would this have set something in the software to always use Roxio for every copy, even "Copy and Paste"? I am afraid I will do some copy function, and it will go back to writing in UDF format, and I will not be able to remove the disk. Do you know if there is a setting in WindowsXP or Roxio that will set a default as to who will execute the simple "Copy and Paste" function. It appears that the same time the eject problem with a CD-RW disk containing UDF started, the Copy and Paste started writing in the CDFS format. It was suggested by someone that Roxio was in control at first, then got into trouble, and it defaulted to WinXP control.

You all have convinced me to use CD-R disks instead of CD-RWs for data safety reasons, and I will do just that. I just want to be able to control the format so it does not start writing in UDF format again, making it impossible to eject the cd withing pressing the eject button during a restart. I appreciate the time you people have spent trying to help very much. At the moment I just don't know what the best action is for me to take. Charles Ranheim

 

[ogdens]

Your first statement: "When you are using "copy and paste" Xp will be do the writing and it will be in CDFS format

(Short for CD-ROM File System), whether your using CD-R or CD-RW's," was not happening on my system. I had been doing a "Copy and Paste" from data on my C: drive to a CD-RW disk for years, and it had been writing in the UDF format. This is why I thought Roxio had control of the copying process. (I believe someone said WinXP can only write in the CDFS format, leading me to believe Roxio was in control) Then, for some reason unknown to me, any CD-RD disk that I loaded in my drive that contained data in UDF format would not eject with the front botton or through the eject option in My Computer. Now, when I do a copy and paste, it reads the input data first, then starts a Wizard to write the data to the disk. Before, when I did the copy and paste, it appeared to read and write at the same time. I payed no attention to what format was on the CD-RW until I was asked about it. It now appeared WinXP was in control.

I have no objections to use CD-R disks from now on, but I wanted to know how to control who (Roxio or WinXP) does the copy and paste. By the way I have started Roxio in the past to do a "Disk Copy". Would this have set something in the software to always use Roxio for every copy, even "Copy and Paste"? I am afraid I will do some copy function, and it will go back to writing in UDF format, and I will not be able to remove the disk. Do you know if there is a setting in WindowsXP or Roxio that will set a default as to who will execute the simple "Copy and Paste" function. It appears that the same time the eject problem with a CD-RW disk containing UDF started, the Copy and Paste started writing in the CDFS format. It was suggested by someone that Roxio was in control at first, then got into trouble, and it defaulted to WinXP control.

You all have convinced me to use CD-R disks instead of CD-RWs for data safety reasons, and I will do just that. I just want to be able to control the format so it does not start writing in UDF format again, making it impossible to eject the cd withing pressing the eject button during a restart. I appreciate the time you people have spent trying to help very much. At the moment I just don't know what the best action is for me to take. Charles Ranheim

 

For XP, go into My Computer, right-click on the drive icon for your CD burne, and select Properties. Choose the Recording tab, and make sure the Enable CD recording on this drive option is turned on.

 

Their could be an option in your ECDC 5 - Direct CD that allows it to make it the default recorder. As I said earlier I don't have ECDC 5 installed,but you could look in there and see if their is that option. That MAY have been what was causing your problem.

 

I just looked up the options in my old manual, and their is one that could have been the problem ( "Show the CD Ready Notification" ) but this required that the CD you had inserted had to have been formated. This would mean that you had already opened Direct CD to format the CD, and from what you have said you did not do this. Somehow though the CD's have been formatted.

 

But everything seems to be ok right now, so unless you change something, you should be ok.

 

This the option page:

 

 

You could also go into Control Panel>Add & Remove Programes and if Direct CD is listed remove it (It may be called Adaptec Direct CD).

[caranheim]

For XP, go into My Computer, right-click on the drive icon for your CD burne, and select Properties. Choose the Recording tab, and make sure the Enable CD recording on this drive option is turned on.

 

Their could be an option in your ECDC 5 - Direct CD that allows it to make it the default recorder. As I said earlier I don't have ECDC 5 installed,but you could look in there and see if their is that option. That MAY have been what was causing your problem.

 

I just looked up the options in my old manual, and their is one that could have been the problem ( "Show the CD Ready Notification" ) but this required that the CD you had inserted had to have been formated. This would mean that you had already opened Direct CD to format the CD, and from what you have said you did not do this. Somehow though the CD's have been formatted.

 

But everything seems to be ok right now, so unless you change something, you should be ok.

 

This the option page:

 

 

You could also go into Control Panel>Add & Remove Programes and if Direct CD is listed remove it (It may be called Adaptec Direct CD).

 

Thanks for your reply

 

The “Enable CD recording” on this drive is set on.

 

I went into my Roxio Easy CD creator and found the following statements:

 

Easy CD Create 5 Basic includes...

Easy CD Creator - offers an intuitive, easy to use interface to help you make CD's like a pro, the first time

Direct CD - Back up your data with "Drag and Drop" ease

CD Copier - Make perfect backup copies of your important CDs

 

There is no program called “Direct CD” or “Adaptec Direct CD”. However, it appears my Roxio, which has been in my system for years, contains “Direct CD”. Are you suggesting I delete Roxio? The only thing I have used from Roxio is the Disk Copier, and it looks like it had been creating CDs in the UDF format for years. I would copy a CD-RW in UDF format to a CR-R using the Roxio Disk Copier feature. This created a CR-R in the UDF format, giving me a permanent backup .

 

My original problem is still with me. That is, I cannot eject a CD-RW disk in UDF format from my R/W drive, even though I can use the data on it. I can, however, load, read, and eject this same CD-RW disk from my ROM drive. In addition, I can load and eject the copied CD-R disk that is in UDF format on the same R/W drive that locks up with the source CD-RW disk. In summary, I can no longer eject any CD-RW disk in the UDF format from my R/W drive unless I press the eject button during a restart.

I discovered this eject problem when I was adding a folder to a CD-RW disk, as I have been doing for years. The other symptom that started at the same time was whenever I did a copy and paste transferring data from the C: drive to the CD-RW, it started a wizard to complete writing the data to the CD. Before this, it would simply copy and write at the same time without this wizard coming into play. It appears from all of this, Roxio may have been doing my copy and paste operations, until something happened, causing WinXP to start doing the copy and paste operation. Does this sound feasible to you? A Dell forum person seems to think the lockup (eject) is a know problem with my level of Roxio. I would still like to continue using the copy disk feature from Roxio as I have done for several years. I fear that trying to remove and/or upgrade Roxio may get me into an unrecoverable situation. I have installed all the recommended updates to my present software (except for Roxio).

 

As it stands now, I have been using a CD-R disk instead of a CD-RW disk for my copy and paste. It has been writing in the CDSF format. This output CD-R disks loads and reads fine on my R/W drive and my ROM drive. However, I cannot read it on my old Gateway ROM drive for some reason. This same drive will read my CDs in UDF format. Is there a compatibility problem where some ROM drives will not read CDs in CDFS format while UDF formatted disks work OK? That certainly would be a new wrinkle to my problem.

 

I know I have unloaded a lot of information on you. I was only trying to paint the complete picture again, hoping something will surface about what may have caused my problem in the first place.

 

Again, I appreciate all the time you have spent trying to help me resolve this issue

Take care,

Charles Ranheim