multiplexing problem

[danielmak]

Apologies up front for a lengthy post, but I have tried to include answers to a host of questions that I would assume would emerge if I just presented the problem itself.

 

I have been using MTR and Toast in combination for various types of burning for a few years and on my iMac Intel 10.5.8 for about a year. I have been using MTR 3.0 14m and toast 10.0.2 with no problems beyond one slight quirk with Toast crashing (solved via help on the Video Help forum and a software re-install). But now I am having a strange problem whenever I use Toast to burn VOBs or MPG files in the Video Tab setting. When I watch the burned DVD on either of my set-top players (both of which have played these DVDs fine for the past couple years) the image is jumpy; it looks like a PAL>NTSC conversion or as if the DVD was copied form a macrovision protected source--neither of which is the case here. When I play the DVD on my computer, everything is fine; it plays as smoothly as all my DVDs used to on my set-top players. I have recently noticed this problem (last week or so) but thought it had to do with muxing (more on that below and discussed in another thread on the Video Help forum) so the problem is recent. I have also updated Toast to 10.0.6 and the same problem persists. I have done a cold re-start on my computer both before and after the Toast update and that did not solve the problem.

 

Here is some more background information that may or may not help:

 

1. I have burned using my Pioneer external drive connected via firewire and I have burned using the internal drive. There is no difference; the image is jumpy.

2. If I do a straight copy of my original DVD using Toast on the external or internal drive. The DVD plays fine on my set-top players.

3. If I do a full disc extraction with MTR, and burn using the data tab setting in Toast, the DVD plays fine on my set-top players.

4. If I drag and drop the VIDEO_TS folder to the desktop and burn that folder in Toast's data setting, the DVD plays fine on my set-top players.

5. If I do a full disc copy with Disk Utility, the DVD plays fine on my set-top players.

6. I have this problem with a jumpy image whenever I use the Video Tab setting on Toast and am burning files that were extracted as individual Title Chapters using MTR. This includes (a) NTSC files extracted from a DVD that I recorded from my Toshiba set-top DVD recorder (I needed to do this because the recording was out of order due to a screw up with my DVR), (- NTSC video m2v files that were created using MPEGstreamclip and MpegWorks from VOB files extracted with MTR and then muxed with new audio, and © PAL video muxed with new audio (using the same process as the NTSC mux).

7. The problem is not media specific. The image is jumpy on my set-top players when using Verbatim DVD-R and TDK DVD-R. And I always burn at 4X.

8. My video tab settings in Toast are set to Custom with Video: MPEG2, 4.0MBPS (8.0 mbps max), reencode never, 4:3; Audio is Dolby Digital 448KPS. I have had this same setting since I was using Toast 7.

 

As I noted at the beginning, this is a strange quirk because I have burned individual VOB or MPEG files in Toast that originated from DVDs using MTR hundreds of times and never had a problem. Plus the images play fine on the computer without any kind of problems with jumpiness. Is there (a) something that might have happened with an Apple software update that could produce this problem or (- some setting in either Toast or MTR that I might have accidentally checked that is causing this problem?

 

Finally, I do not know if Disk Utility can burn individual VOB or MPEG files (it does not appear to) so I haven't been able to test another burning option.

 

Thanks for reading this lengthy post.

 

ps: All emoticons should be read as "b". For some reason the letter b inside parentheses is converted to an emoticon.

[tsantee]

We are not allowed to discuss in this forum anything involving troubles with ripped DVD sources. Forgetting MTR for the moment, the way to extract video titles or chapters from a non-encrypted DVD or VIDEO_TS folder is to use the Toast Media Browser. Choose DVD with the top button of the browser and then select either the titles or chapters levels with the next-lower button (or double-click in the browser window to bore down). Drag the titles or chapters to the Video window with DVD video selected as the format or to the Convert window with Video Files selected as the format.

 

If there still are problems it may be due to timecode breaks which require MPEG Streamclip for repair.

[danielmak]

We are not allowed to discuss in this forum anything involving troubles with ripped DVD sources. Forgetting MTR for the moment, the way to extract video titles or chapters from a non-encrypted DVD or VIDEO_TS folder is to use the Toast Media Browser. Choose DVD with the top button of the browser and then select either the titles or chapters levels with the next-lower button (or double-click in the browser window to bore down). Drag the titles or chapters to the Video window with DVD video selected as the format or to the Convert window with Video Files selected as the format.

 

If there still are problems it may be due to timecode breaks which require MPEG Streamclip for repair.

 

Thanks for the reply. I understand the comment about ripped sources, but I want to reiterate that none of these DVD projects are commercial sources; they are my own recordings from TV that I use for media history work. That aside, I have used MPEG Streamclip to fix timecode breaks where applicable and that has not solved the problem, but thanks for checking about that as a possible source for the problem.

 

After posting my question, I downloaded a program called Liquid CD to test. I was able to burn my two MPEG files for the DVD I made where I was able to match English commentary with a Japanese image for a soccer game. This is one of the DVDs that gave me problems when I burned in Toast. Burning with Liquid CD had no problems when I played back on my set-top DVD player. So the problem is clearly a Toast problem. Now the big question for me is why this just started happening. As I noted in my original post, I have been using Toast to burn specific VOB or MPG files by dragging and dropping with the Video Tab setting for a couple years and have never had this problem, but now it happens with every video tab setting burn. I have not done an unistall/reinstall to see if that will fix the problem but seeing as Toast works fine with full disk extractions or disc copies, that would not seem to be a solution. I'm truly stuck, and I prefer to keep using Toast rather than Liquid CD because Toast embeds a variety of features in the final burn (e.g., my set-top player displays more information when I press the display button). And plus I paid for Toast because I like the features.

 

EDIT: It turns out that Liquid CD only burns the MPG files and does not multiplex to create a full VIDEO_TS folder. Sizzle seems to work, although there are menu problems. Either way, I am still hoping to use Toast since the program used to work for my needs.

[tsantee]

Thanks for the reply. I understand the comment about ripped sources, but I want to reiterate that none of these DVD projects are commercial sources; they are my own recordings from TV that I use for media history work. That aside, I have used MPEG Streamclip to fix timecode breaks where applicable and that has not solved the problem, but thanks for checking about that as a possible source for the problem.

If the source video is not encrypted then there is no reason to mess with MTS. Just put the source DVD in Toast and try my suggestion for using the Toast Media Browser to extract titles and/or chapters from the disc. What happens when you do that?

[danielmak]

If the source video is not encrypted then there is no reason to mess with MTS. Just put the source DVD in Toast and try my suggestion for using the Toast Media Browser to extract titles and/or chapters from the disc. What happens when you do that?

 

Thanks, I will give that a try. I use MacTheRipper because one of my writing partners is in Europe and when I send him DVDs that I record on my set-top recorder without setting the Region to 0 then he can't play the DVD on his player, which hinders our ability to continue with our project. But I have solved my problem. I did a cold re-start, deleted Toast, did another cold re-start, re-installed 10.0.2, did another cold re-start, and my problem was solved. This is a bit frustrating because I used Toast 6 and 7 for 4 years and never had any problems. This is now the second time in a year that I have had to delete and re-install Toast 10. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to offer suggestions; I appreciate the help. If I run into the problem again, I will test the Toast Media Browser extraction. Hopefully I won't, tough.

[danielmak]

Since I posted this I have tried various methods to extract specific VOBs. The Toast solution described above works if I am just doing straight drag and drop, but I can't seem to edit the VOB files under the Video TAB DVD-Video setting. In MPEGStreamclip, I select my in or out and just drag down to delete or cut. Toast does not seem to allow me to edit. I get a cloud I hit delete that is equivalent to the one we see and makes a "poof" sound when dragging an application icon from the dock. However, my video is still there. When I just save my in and out points, the length of my clip shrinks from 10 minutes to 8 minutes in the window but when I save as Disk Image and test before actually burning, the footage is still there.

 

Screen shot of my in and out in Toast, the red and yellow/gray line represents what I want to delete. Do I just save or is there some way to actually delete the footage while in this view?

 

Second, and more directly related to my original post in this thread, if I delete Toast and re-install, it will properly burn my MTR extracted files that are fixed for Timecode breaks with MPEGStreamclip. The burn is good for 2-3 DVDS and then the problem starts again. This is killing me. Any recommendations?

[tsantee]

Since I posted this I have tried various methods to extract specific VOBs. The Toast solution described above works if I am just doing straight drag and drop, but I can't seem to edit the VOB files under the Video TAB DVD-Video setting. In MPEGStreamclip, I select my in or out and just drag down to delete or cut. Toast does not seem to allow me to edit. I get a cloud I hit delete that is equivalent to the one we see and makes a "poof" sound when dragging an application icon from the dock. However, my video is still there. When I just save my in and out points, the length of my clip shrinks from 10 minutes to 8 minutes in the window but when I save as Disk Image and test before actually burning, the footage is still there.

 

Screen shot of my in and out in Toast, the red and yellow/gray line represents what I want to delete. Do I just save or is there some way to actually delete the footage while in this view?

 

Second, and more directly related to my original post in this thread, if I delete Toast and re-install, it will properly burn my MTR extracted files that are fixed for Timecode breaks with MPEGStreamclip. The burn is good for 2-3 DVDS and then the problem starts again. This is killing me. Any recommendations?

When I've used the Toast Media Browser to extract mpeg video from a DVD or VIDEO_TS folder I have experienced problems with Toast's editor (although I haven't tried this with the latest Toast update). The workaround for me is to change the extension of the extracted file in the Roxio Converted Items folder from .vob to .mpg and then drag that .mpg file to the Video window in place of the earlier extraction. This file then opens properly in the Toast Video Player/editor.

 

Does this address the question/issue you have?

[danielmak]

When I've used the Toast Media Browser to extract mpeg video from a DVD or VIDEO_TS folder I have experienced problems with Toast's editor (although I haven't tried this with the latest Toast update). The workaround for me is to change the extension of the extracted file in the Roxio Converted Items folder from .vob to .mpg and then drag that .mpg file to the Video window in place of the earlier extraction. This file then opens properly in the Toast Video Player/editor.

 

Does this address the question/issue you have?

 

Thanks. When I burned it worked fine, so the edited time was an accurate reflection. I don't know why it didn't work when I created a disc image. Maybe I accidentally hit something that undid the edit. Strange.

 

If I could only figure out the reasons why the multiplexing problem occurs with files not generated via Toast's editing function, then I'd be really happy. :-) There are too many other types of edits (i.e., demuxing and muxing) that I would like to do that Toast can't do on its own.