How Does Toast Deal With Errors When Making An Iso Copy?

[anoop]

I think I have finally found my dream solution for backing up all of my 150-200 CDs. I am planning to use Toast to create .iso copies of the CDs (multiformat to be used on windows or the mac, although I have a mac right now). I'll save these iso's to an external hard disk. As and when I decide I want to imports songs into itunes, I will mount the .iso from the external hard disk using Toast and then get iTunes to create an "iTunes quality" version of the songs on the CD.

 

First off, does anyone see any problems with this plan?

 

Second, how does Toast deal with errors in reading the CD? I would imagine it would just create a .iso file with errors. In that case, would iTunes error correction work, given that there is no chance of ever reading something differently by simply re-reading when the file being read is from a hard disk mounted as a CD, rather than an actual physical CD.

 

Any insights would be helpful. If you use a similar method to archive your CDs and have any additional tips that would be much appreciated as well!

 

Thanks,

Anoop

[theoldarchiver]

I am planning to use Toast to create .iso copies of the CDs (multiformat to be used on windows or the mac, although I have a mac right now).

There is no such thing as an Mac/PC hybrid disc multiformat for audio CDs. Their format is always CD-DA a.k.a. 'Red Book' CD standard.

Toast has two ways of storing that as a disk image: Sd2f (Sound Desiger 2 format) or Bin/Cue (a combination of a .bin disk image file and a .cue meta data file). Either way of saving can be mounted with Toast as a virtual disc. Many PC users are more comfortable/familiar with the Bin/Cue format.

 

I don't see a benefit from storing full size CD images, but that's your choice. You could save as MP3 or M4A directly. You can remove them from the iTunes library if their number becomes too large, and add them again at a later date, when wanted. iTunes doesn't have to use ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/ for storing the music library files; they can stay on the external drive.

[anoop]

There is no such thing as an Mac/PC hybrid disc multiformat for audio CDs. Their format is always CD-DA a.k.a. 'Red Book' CD standard.

Toast has two ways of storing that as a disk image: Sd2f (Sound Desiger 2 format) or Bin/Cue (a combination of a .bin disk image file and a .cue meta data file). Either way of saving can be mounted with Toast as a virtual disc. Many PC users are more comfortable/familiar with the Bin/Cue format.

 

Looks like I never seem to have the whole picture. :-)

 

Would either of those formats be readable in windows or a mac? Let's say I'm looking 10 years from today...which is likely to be more universally supported for mounting -- and not just by Toast.

 

I don't see a benefit from storing full size CD images, but that's your choice. You could save as MP3 or M4A directly. You can remove them from the iTunes library if their number becomes too large, and add them again at a later date, when wanted.

 

There seem to be pros/cons with each approach. I want to do the archival in the most portable way possible.

 

- If I rip to wav, I lose the ability to tag. I could rip to wav + cue sheet, but then I have to go about making sure that the ripper doesn't create a bad cue sheet. Also, not sure if I would still be missing some info from the original CD. The reason I would chose wav would be because it is the most portable.

 

- If I rip to Apple Lossless, then I'm stuck with an Apple proprietary format and I'll have to make sure I modify all the archives if I ever need to get off iTunes.

 

- I don't want to deal with other formats such as FLAC since those have non-universal support and are not even supported in iTunes now.

 

That's why I thought the best way would be to save the CD as a .iso. I thought the whole point of saving to .iso would be to not have to deal withe cue sheets and I would get to preserve the exact bit-for-bit encoding of the original CD.

 

iTunes doesn't have to use ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/ for storing the music library files; they can stay on the external drive.

 

Can iTunes pick up files from a combination of places, some on the local disk and some off it?

 

Thanks,

Anoop

[theoldarchiver]

Let's say I'm looking 10 years from today...which is likely to be more universally supported for mounting -- and not just by Toast.

Ten years is a very long time in the digital age. If I could predict file formats for that time, then I wouldn't be struggling 9 to 5. Better hang on to your original discs, to be safe.

 

Can iTunes pick up files from a combination of places, some on the local disk and some off it?

iTunes seems to have two settings: either move everything to the iTunes directory, or keep every audio file in its original location (except conversions - but you can always move those manually).

[anoop]

Ten years is a very long time in the digital age. If I could predict file formats for that time, then I wouldn't be struggling 9 to 5. Better hang on to your original discs, to be safe.

 

I don't know enough about this stuff, but why is it not possible to just have a bit-by-bit copy of the CD? That way it would be readable regardless of OS.

 

Also, don't the original discs themselves deteriorate with time?

 

I was hoping to avoid holding on to the physical CDs, but I guess at this point in time, that appears to be the only option. I was also hoping to go through the cycle of putting my CDs in my computer for ripping/archival just once, but it looks like I'll have to do it once now and may have to do it again at some point in the future.

 

Thanks,

Anoop

[theoldarchiver]

why is it not possible to just have a bit-by-bit copy of the CD?

Only a small portion of the bits on the disc is actual audio data (2,352 of 7,203 bytes per sector) (~33%). There is a lot of translation going on between the low level reading of the disc and the actual data being send to the high level interpreters. The drive sends a pre-processed signal further up the chain. Even if it were possible, it would still be impractical, and needlessly complicated.

 

 

Also, don't the original discs themselves deteriorate with time?

Factory pressed pre-recorded audio discs should last a life time and then some, when properly handled. (In theory, because they've only been around for 30 years.) Recordables don't last that long, but those aren't exactly originals.

 

I was also hoping to go through the cycle of putting my CDs in my computer for ripping/archival just once, but it looks like I'll have to do it once now and may have to do it again at some point in the future.

What if the hard disk fails? Then you would still have to go back to the CDs.

[anoop]

What if the hard disk fails? Then you would still have to go back to the CDs.

 

I would just retrieve my backup sitting on a different hard disk and rerip using a script. Sure beats manually inserting and ejecting every CD.

[tsantee]

I would just retrieve my backup sitting on a different hard disk and rerip using a script. Sure beats manually inserting and ejecting every CD.

I'll just add some more info about copying audio CDs with Toast. Toast will add the tracks to its audio or convert window rather than the copy window. The tracks will be added with the same pause between tracks as the source. If you add them to the audio window with audio CD as the format you can save a .sd2f file is as close to your .iso as is possible with the audio CD format. If you later want to make a duplicate audio CD the .sd2f file does that perfectly. However, if you want to play the .sd2f file on the Mac you'll find that it imports and plays in iTunes as one long track. You'll need to play the .sd2f with Toast to be able to select specific tracks.

 

What makes sense to me is for you to convert your audio CDs to a computer-playable format such as FLAC or AAC for whenever you want to play them on a computer or other digital device. If you want a backup of the source disc (so that you can make a duplicate audio CD at some future time) then create the .sd2f files and store it away on a backup hard drive.