Toast 10 Pro Disk Capacity Miscalculation

[mgg]

I'm burning 9 SD movies to a blu-ray disk (or I'd like to). Toast is set to Automatic encoding - and it calculates 21.95GB for disk 1, Space Remaining 1.36 GB - but when it encodes, I get the error message 23.46 GB required and 23.31GB available. I hit ok, and silly enough, it tells me "Your disk is ready", but of course it is not.

 

I have pretty much all menu options turned off. The SD video totals 12:14:53 which should fit. I can use custom settings - but after moving the slider so it fits, the exact same numbers show up. I'm guess this has to do with the fact that I have 9 titles so a second menu - but geesh, that can't take 1.36GB either - so no sense here.

 

System: Mac Pro, fully updated, Toast 10 Pro updated. Pioneer BDR-206 drive, Ritek 25GB disk.

[tsantee]

Don't know why that is happening. Try choosing Save as Disc Image instead of clicking the burn button. Then choose the disc image with the Image File setting in the Copy window. Does Toast claim the content will fit after you do that?

[mgg]

Don't know why that is happening. Try choosing Save as Disc Image instead of clicking the burn button. Then choose the disc image with the Image File setting in the Copy window. Does Toast claim the content will fit after you do that?

 

I'm wondering if this is a 2 to the 9th vs 2 to the 30th issue..... I Save as Disk - and it created a file 21.95 GB in size (23,566,827,520 bytes which by the way is larger than 23.31 GiB....... if so, its still a bug - or two of them, as it should be calculating the size correctly and should be consistent in its math system.

 

It'll be another hour or so before I know if it will burn that image to the disk.

 

me

[mgg]

no go - while Toast initially created a 21.95GB disk image (matching its estimate) - by the time it was done, it was 23.46GB - so it appears there is an issue calculating the compression rate so the initial size is well smaller than the final size. Oddly, when I take a movie off the amount of free space shrinks to 64MB...... I'm going to let it encode to see what happens. I suppose the other solution is go custom and force the compression even smaller......

 

mgg

[mgg]

ok, less video - exact same numbers - and too much to fit on disk - does this work for anyone?

 

I'd go to custom and force the bit rates down - but the slider is rather coarse - like every 0.5Mbps..... it has to work better than this.

mgg

Edited February 28, 2011 by mgg

[tsantee]

ok, less video - exact same numbers - and too much to fit on disk - does this work for anyone?

 

I'd go to custom and force the bit rates down - but the slider is rather coarse - like every 0.5Mbps..... it has to work better than this.

mgg

Creating a too-large disc image – especially when it is reported that the size will fit – seems to be a very serious problem with Toast. I'm wondering why it hadn't come up before. The only explanation I can think of is that the amount of video that you're trying to include cannot fit at the greatest compression settings that Toast uses with its automatic settings. Since it is so close I wonder if reducing the audio bit rate is all that needs to happen. Of course I don't know what the video bit rates should be, either.

 

Something to test is to drag the encoded video files from the Roxio Converted Items folder into a new Toast project window. This way they won't need to be encoded again, just multiplexed. If Toast says they'll fit the disc you can try again. I don't know how much room is needed for menus and other overhead but it seems excessive what you're experiencing.

[mgg]

Creating a too-large disc image – especially when it is reported that the size will fit – seems to be a very serious problem with Toast. I'm wondering why it hadn't come up before. The only explanation I can think of is that the amount of video that you're trying to include cannot fit at the greatest compression settings that Toast uses with its automatic settings. Since it is so close I wonder if reducing the audio bit rate is all that needs to happen. Of course I don't know what the video bit rates should be, either.

 

Something to test is to drag the encoded video files from the Roxio Converted Items folder into a new Toast project window. This way they won't need to be encoded again, just multiplexed. If Toast says they'll fit the disc you can try again. I don't know how much room is needed for menus and other overhead but it seems excessive what you're experiencing.

 

When I was using the manual settings - I hadn't selected MPEG - it was defaulting to avc or whatever the other option is.... so I told it to encode 8 videos, MPEG...... 18 hours later, it is only 5/8ths done so it is going to be 24 hours or more just to encode one blu-ray, plus burning time. Looking at the converted file sizes so far, it looks like it might fit but I'll have to wait to see. This is running on a 2 x 2.6 quad core Zeon machine with 5G of memory. Activity monitor shows 16 threads, 15 to 20% utilized and disk activity (read) bounces between 100k and 500k and nearly half the system memory is free - so I have no clue what the bottle neck is as neither the cpus nor disk or memory are being taxed. I suppose I could try going to compressor, but from what I've read there are issues getting the right settings in compressor so Toast won't want to re-encode.

 

mgg

[mgg]

Results of MPEG2 encode in toast.... 24.64 GB needed, 23.31GB available...... Toast seems to be incapable of correctly calculating the expected size of a large amount of SD to be burned into a Blu-ray disk.....

 

On to Compressor test.

 

mgg

[mgg]

Ok, so other projects aside, I got around to another test. Took my 9 vids, shared out of FCP via compressor, MPEG-2 with AC3, 5-7.5Mbps vbr 2 pass best encoding. I can see right off the bat, not all 9 will fit, so I pull the first 8 into Toast - it says, 23.20 on 1 disk, 110 M remaining. I set re-econde never and hit the big red button. A few minutes later I get "There's not enough free space on this disk. 24.64 GB are needed, 21.31 are available. That is 1.44GB of bloat/miscalculation in the multiplex process - can't be right.

 

 

Just for grins, I pull video number 8 off - it is nearly 52 minutes. It says, 21.93 GB on disk, 1.38 GB remainaing, so of course when I hit the big red button, it multiplexes and tells me that 23.32 GB are needed and 23.31 GB are available.

 

So, yes, I can re-encode to get smaller videos or put fewer ones on, but nothing explains why Toast is doing such a terrible job of calculating the space required - or why it needs to bloat the disk with 5% overhead.

 

I'm still waiting for customer service to provide more than the stock - here's how you encode response.

mgg

[mgg]

more toast 10 fun.....

 

SO, the manual is very unclear on the subject of putting SD video on a BLU-RAY disk. I have been using the Blu-ray Video option. SO, for grins, I try the DVD-Video option - and I get the same problem, only half as much. I put 8 vids on DVD-video and it predicted disk size is exactly the same as Blu-ray. BUT, when the muxing is over, I get the not enough error, 23.83 are needed and 23.31 is available - so instead of 1.4GB of bloat, its in the 500M range. I set the menu option to NONE and instead of burning what would end up being a coaster, set it to save as disk image - it opened a toast file that was 23.2GB - but by the time it was done saving, it was 23.83 - so turning off menus saved nothing!

 

So, the standard says 13 hours of video - and certainly I could decrease the bit rate and get my video small enough - but it seems like I have to guess what initial size estimate would actually fit. I can work around this - but why should I have to - and is this extra space really needed - or is it somehow being wasted?

 

If I add up the audio & video file sizes fo the 8 videos, it is 22.8GB - so even the predicted size of 23.2 includes nearly 400GB of "overhead". I'd expect some from the muxing process, but is that normal? Even if so, the increase in size should be completely predictable.

 

I'd love it if I was doing something wrong and someone could point it out to me because I really would like to make use of this without all the guessing. Has anyone out there actually done this?

mgg

[mgg]

And just to show this isn't some odd problem with my computer....

 

http://workflowed.blogspot.com/2010/09/snafu-toast-10-titanium-pros-addition.html

 

has had the exact same set of symptoms.

 

ROXIO!!!! are you listening??????

 

mgg

[mgg]

so, I do a detailed comparison between the compressor files for each of the movies and the resulting VOB files in the toast disk image - and they bloated by between 4.5% and 7.4% (average 6.6%) while being muxed. I have no idea if this is normal, but I expect that Toast could correctly estimate the file sizes....

 

me

[mgg]

sigh...... I'm on my third iteration of the second ticket - and all I can get from roxio is standard, "please try this" responses that have nothing whatsoever to do with my problem.....

 

me

[mgg]

so, nothing at roxio has changed. After half a dozen "customer service responses" where some program or someone who didn't understand english sent a "try this" response that had nothing whatsoever to do with my problem (like "here is how you burn a standard DVD"), my tickets have evaporated.

 

SO, after spending $100 in January and never really using the software successfully, my choice now is to A) run like hell from a company that can't support their product even to the point of actually reading tickets or spend yet another $100 for a new version of said software with absolutely NO CLUE as to whether it will work. I can't even get customer service to say - "hey we don't know if that works" or "its fixed in the new version". NOTHING.

 

So hey - can someone out there open toast 11 pro and drop on 10 or 12 hours of video, let it tell you how big it will be - then encode to a file and see how big the file is? I'm happy to pay for things that work, but my experience with Roxio over the years does not encourage me to spend another $100 of my hard earned money.

tnx

mgg

[tsantee]

so, nothing at roxio has changed. After half a dozen "customer service responses" where some program or someone who didn't understand english sent a "try this" response that had nothing whatsoever to do with my problem (like "here is how you burn a standard DVD"), my tickets have evaporated.

 

SO, after spending $100 in January and never really using the software successfully, my choice now is to A) run like hell from a company that can't support their product even to the point of actually reading tickets or spend yet another $100 for a new version of said software with absolutely NO CLUE as to whether it will work. I can't even get customer service to say - "hey we don't know if that works" or "its fixed in the new version". NOTHING.

 

So hey - can someone out there open toast 11 pro and drop on 10 or 12 hours of video, let it tell you how big it will be - then encode to a file and see how big the file is? I'm happy to pay for things that work, but my experience with Roxio over the years does not encourage me to spend another $100 of my hard earned money.

tnx

mgg

I suppose I could do that but my guess is I'd do the test in a wrong way and give you misinformation. What you can do is buy Toast 11 directly from Roxio and try it yourself. If it doesn't work then take advantage of their 30-day refund policy. My guess is it won't be any different.

[denyll]

Hey Mgg, I'm having the same exact issue. Just wondering if you have any updates? Thanks in advance!

[hrfilm]

I've had the same problem:

 

On a Taiyo Yuden single layer DVD disk,

I dropped in a Quicktime Movie:

 

Size of QT Movie.....1.2 gb

Message:

............................."4.70 gb Needed."

............................" 4.38 gb Available."

 

Roxio Support suggested updating my Toast 10 Pro.

I already have the latest update.

Has anyone had a breakthrough resolution with this?

 

PS: I've heard that Toast 11 has some problems.

 

Mike