Most Needed Videowave Feature - Missing? Move/crop Overlay Mask ... Help!

[RobertNasir]

Just bought Creator 2011 because my six year old Easy Media Creator 7 application just can't keep up with current file formats, e.g. the MP4 files of my Samsung camcorder.

 

Just set up a new Windows 7 system, bought and installed a copy of Creator 2011.

 

Because the most important feature for my work with multiple cameras is the overlay feature, I was happy to see that C2011 supports multiple overlays.

 

Until I tried to move the active frame, or mask, of an overlaid video clip.

 

In VideoWave 7, this was as easy as right-clicking the clip, choosing "Edit", then "Overlay", then right-clicking the frame in the preview, and dragging it (which caused the overlay frame to move, but not the overlaid clip, effectively cropping it). Brilliant, and endlessly useful if you're using multiple shots, multiple angles, or even a clip overlaid by itself.

 

But in VideoWave / Creator 2011, the only Edit option in the context menu is Edit Native Audio.

 

Of course, you can click the overlay clip, or it's preview frame, to bring up the "Settings" pane to manually position, zoom, etc ... but these options don't include the option to keep the overlay zoom and position the same, while moving it's frame. If the old "Overlay Width" option was still there, I could work around these limitations ... no it's not. (The current "Width" control actually reduces the width of the image, squeezing or expanding the image, not changing it's frame) You can crop, but not with the versatility that freely moving the active frame allows.

 

(If you've got a copy of the older app, and want to see the kind of edit I'm looking for, open VideoWave, add a clip, add a second clip as an overlay, right-click the overlay, click "Edit", then "Overlay", and right-drag the image of the overlay - you'll see the image doesn't move, and you've got a perfect split-screen. I know there's other ways to split-screen - this is just an example.)

 

Anyone know if there's still a way to move (and thereby crop) the active region of an overlay?

 

Or, if this feature's been removed, do you know the last version of EMC/Creator that had the capability?

 

(Yes, it really is that crucially important for the work I do!)

 

Thanks in advance!

[Jim_Hardin]

Don’t take it personally!

 

Nothing you are asking about is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination

 

Without digging in the EMC 8 archives, I would bet there were folks who missed it there. But those questions faded over the versions since you can’t miss what you never saw

 

HERE is a link to a similar solution I offered but it is so limited…

 

Old PC’s abound so there is no reason why you can’t keep EMC 7 running if you use this much. But even then you would be limited to just DVD quality…

 

I’ll kick this around with some others to see if we can’t get you a better solution.

 

keep your fingers crossed

[RobertNasir]

P.S.: That's a mighty cute doggie!

P.P.S.: What the heck happened to my grammar in that 3rd from last paragraph?

[karri]

I have to change some of the numbers to make the other reflection show up. But like I noted in the other thread, it may not work in every situation.

 

[RobertNasir]

Karri:

 

Thank you for the reply. I figured that's what you had done, since one doggy reflection is missing on the glass tabletop. I tried a similar video in Creator 2011 of myself sitting next to myself on the couch ... but, as you can imagine, one dude's got legs fading away spookily at the knees ...

 

As was previously discussed, a workaround is to first edit the intended overlay, copying the right half of the frame to the left by overlaying it on itself (or a blank color panel), and saving the result using a non-lossy format to an intermediate work file.

 

Then that work file with the as an overlay, and instead of zooming it, can simply be overlaid and dragged whole cloth to one side.

 

Ah, but it used to be so very, very easy!

 

Hoping you're all having a fine morning,

Robert

[karri]

Did you get his paw print on a release form???

:lol:

 

Have any screen shots of VW for the dog video???

 

Attached I used a color panel on the main track, and then added the dog on (my) right side of the couch as the first overlay, and the dog on left side as second overlay and manipulated the second overlay to match the first. If I were going to use this method in a video, I would work on an internal panel.

 

Edit: Third pic is just the second overlay visible after "cropping"

 

 

 

[Jim_Hardin]

Dog is the only one in family that will appear in my videos

Did you get his paw print on a release form???

 

Have any screen shots of VW for the dog video???

[karri]

I played around with it, and you can do it, but not as easily as in v.7.5.

 

Read through this post

http://forums.suppor...post__p__352590

 

With that method I can create the couch clip you described,

 

Dog is the only one in family that will appear in my videos

[Jim_Hardin]

(Curiously enough, having to wait for extra/intermediate renders does give me time to post on here ...)

now that is budgeting your time!!!

 

Honestly??? If I were doing professional work or running a video lab, I would be looking at other software...

 

I like the Roxio Creator Suites very much and speed of render is hard to match, but the deal breaker for me, if I were a Pro, is the lack of compatibility from version to version

 

Even today (retired) I can go back 10 or 20 years and open CAD/CAM projects I have done with my current versions of software! Granted those programs cost $4,000 30 years ago and hit $12,000 to $22,000 today...

[RobertNasir]

I am curious how you handle audio??? Do you use the Video tracks’ Native audio, or extract it and add it as a separate Overlay?

 

For music, if the primary (non-overlay) video has a good enough audio track, then yep, I just use that. Once the various overlays are synchronized (which is easier to do listening to both the primary's and overlay's audio), I edit each of the overlay's native audio's, simply reducing their levels all the way down.

 

In the worst case (bad audio on primary video), I'll extract the audio from another clip of the same event (or if there's an audio-only recording, add that), though that makes synchronizing the clips a bit more difficult ...

 

I could do a more polished job of the audio if I always recorded it using audio gear, cleaned it up (I use Audacity for this), and then added it back to the project ...

 

But I intentionally don't spend a lot of time on these things unless they're really important - because I just don't have that much time on my hands - if it's going to take all day, it's not going to happen.

 

If I did video work professionally, I'd shrug off extra steps as part of the cost of doing business (and would produce work which isn't, as you observed, quite so busy/silly!).

 

But ironically, when it's just for fun, I have to budget time more wisely! I've got a large backlog of video, years of camera extracts and 8mm tape, as well as photographs, waiting to be "gotten to" ... family events, wedding clips, school functions, speeches and rallies, and of course lots of music-related video ... so making this both easy and enjoyable is paramount.

 

The more streamlined I make these processes, the more I get done.

 

(Curiously enough, having to wait for extra/intermediate renders does give me time to post on here ...)

[Jim_Hardin]

Yes that is some pretty neat stuff at the end

 

I didn’t care for the frequency of cuts at the start, I like 5 to 7 seconds before changes, my preference

 

Fact is, it is gone and since it hasn’t come back in 6 versions, it is not likely to think it will be in the 7th

 

I encourage you to use the Help - Provide Feedback feature of Roxio to suggest this!!! I will, but the more that do, gets attention

 

You can do everything you are doing now only some things will be a little more work. Probably the better would be to create those overlay on your old PC.

 

Instead of transferring the entire file, just send over the segments you need and create them there and bring them back.

 

I am curious how you handle audio??? Do you use the Video tracks’ Native audio, or extract it and add it as a separate Overlay?

[RobertNasir]

Old PC’s abound so there is no reason why you can’t keep EMC 7 running if you use this much. But even then you would be limited to just DVD quality…

 

Thanks again ... yep, easy enough to keep an old system running ... only issue (besides the extra hardware laying around) is getting newer formats into EMC7. Of course, I can bring them into C2011, re-encode them to an older standard, then bring them into EMC7 ... and if I was working with short clips, that'd be an OK workaround. But I'm often working with several multi-gigabyte files.

 

For example, one thing I'll very often do is leave a couple cameras running during the kind of open mic, amateur night sort of event I attend (and sometimes organize).

 

Now, in these bars and clubs, there's often no good place to put a camera ... and folks move around a lot during the event ... so much/most of what's on "film" is chaff ... but that's fine, since I'm only interested in clipping out, and cropping out, the gems.

 

For this reason, I also don't need to worry about "only DVD quality" since, once I've found the worthwhile bits, the end result is pretty low resolution stuff anyway.

 

If you're curious, here's a clip from several years ago, done in EMC7 ... Corktown Tavern, Detroit, MI.

 

http://www.fdpjam.com/2006/video_iii/04_fdp_06_iii_lasttime.wmv

 

... and here's one done today in C2011 ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUu9Gc7BwNY

 

As you see, I'm all about overlays ...

[RobertNasir]

"That may be gone??? While it seems useful, I honestly believe you are the only one asking about it in the 5 1/2 it has been gone

 

 

Yep, I have, indeed, noticed that no one else seems to have noticed. Here, in the knowledgebase, the "other" EMC forum, the book (EMC for Dummies, which is free to read online), Roxio's "getting started" guide ... somehow, it just hasn't come up ... believe me, I've been looking!

 

I'm half tempted to post more examples of what such a feature makes possible ... but if it's really gone, I suppose that'd only leave more folks thinking, heck, that would be something good to have in the toolkit ... too bad it ain't there ...

 

The expression, "it's just you," has never worn well with me ... but sadly, on this issue, I just might hafta' to break it in ...

[Jim_Hardin]

Good work, Monkey See, Monkey Remember...

 

That may be gone??? While it seems useful, I honestly believe you are the only one asking about it in the 5 1/2 it has been gone

 

Still, I will see what I can find

[RobertNasir]

I have not found any way to do this in C2011. I tried in EMC 7.5 and it works quickly and easily. Definitely seems to be a step backwards in a Videowave feature from EMC 7/7.5

Perhaps some VW expert will come forward and show a method.

 

BTW, excellent little demo video.

 

Thanks for taking a look, Walt. Good to have confirmation that 7.5 did have the feature ...

[bimicher]

 

Ah, but in fact, you could! And I use that feature regularly. And will miss it terribly if it really is gone for good.

 

The only "documentation" I know for it is the text on the Overlay Editor window:

 

 

(Incidentally, I know there's several options to resize an overlay -- indeed, C2011 has more of those than EMC7 -- but resizing the overlay is, for my purposes, not especially useful.)

 

It's hard to convey just how valuable this feature can be. For example, it's just the ticket when working with videos of live stage performances, with multiple simultaneous camera angles.

 

Tried to explain via screen captures, but found it's hard to show via still images ... so I made a quick video, which, I hope, explains a bit more clearly. (Double click the video to open in a new window...)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyDR_8LN9Wg

 

Thanks again for any assistance!

 

I have not found any way to do this in C2011. I tried in EMC 7.5 and it works quickly and easily. Definitely seems to be a step backwards in a Videowave feature from EMC 7/7.5

Perhaps some VW expert will come forward and show a method.

 

BTW, excellent little demo video.

[RobertNasir]

In VW you can "RESIZE" an Overlay but you could never Crop it...

 

Ah, but in fact, you could! And I use that feature regularly. And will miss it terribly if it really is gone for good.

 

The only "documentation" I know for it is the text on the Overlay Editor window:

 

 

(Incidentally, I know there's several options to resize an overlay -- indeed, C2011 has more of those than EMC7 -- but resizing the overlay is, for my purposes, not especially useful.)

 

It's hard to convey just how valuable this feature can be. For example, it's just the ticket when working with videos of live stage performances, with multiple simultaneous camera angles.

 

Tried to explain via screen captures, but found it's hard to show via still images ... so I made a quick video, which, I hope, explains a bit more clearly. (Double click the video to open in a new window...)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyDR_8LN9Wg

 

Thanks again for any assistance!

[Jim_Hardin]

You are suffering from sticker shock

 

I have been in this since Ver 3 and I am familiar with all versions capabilities and limitations. I ran Ver 7 for one year and was happy to move to EMC 8!

 

 

This is an example of Cropping using a Photo Editor.

 

I want to keep the area around the Sunset, BEFORE crop:

 

AFTER crop:

 

In VW you can "RESIZE" an Overlay but you could never Crop it...

 

The only thing that comes close, just became available in Creator 2011, is within Stabilize Video. And even that only amounts to a Zoom, not a crop

 

Example of Stabilize Before:

 

And at Full Zoom:

(I should mention, the source is 4:3 in a 16:9 Project and Aspect Ratio Handling only works on the Video Track hence the black bars)

 

I would appreciate your screen cap, when you have the time, just to jog my failing memory

 

There are going to be other frustrations as transition up the 6 version you skipped

 

Don't hesitate to ask and by all means visit the How To's for all versions in between as they are cumulative.

[RobertNasir]

Got it, the ‘cropping’ threw me off as no version has ever had cropping in VideoWave, at least by that name

 

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I can tell you, whatever you choose to call it (cropping? masking?), WideoWave 7 certainly can do it to overlays (and it is a beautiful thing).

 

It looks like, in your screenshots, you're doing something similar to what I outlined above as a workaround.

 

If so, then when I am able to post a screenshot of how simple this is (was) in VW7, you might be surprised.

 

Imagine leaving out your whole first step, and combining the other two ... in VideoWave 7, your bird-on-the-lawn clip is your video, your road sign is your overlay, and you simply move the overlay where you want it (which you can also do in Creator 2011) by dragging with your left mouse button, and then cropping any parts you don't want by dragging the overlay's frame with your RIGHT mouse button (a feature which C2011 doesn't seem to support ... unless I'm wrong about that).

 

(Of course, what I'm really hoping you'll say is, "oh, so THAT'S what you want to do? That's easy! Just [fill in secret here]" ...)

[Jim_Hardin]

Got it, the ‘cropping’ threw me off as no version has ever had cropping in VideoWave, at least by that name

 

To do that you have to put your video or pictures on the Overlay track.

 

You may have to put a blank panel on the Video track first as you cannot have an ‘overlay’ unless there is something it can lay over…

Then anytime you click on them, they become active and you can do what you need in the preview

pane.

 

Here are some shots I did demonstrate a split pane effect:

 

[RobertNasir]

Maybe I don't quite understand what you are describing but I believe what you want can easily be done in C2011, at least for your example.

 

After adding the overlay, select the overlay in the overlay track, then you simply move the mouse over the overlay in the preview window and while pressing the left mouse you can move the overlay around within the window. Using the corners of the overlay you can adjust the overlay size ,etc.

 

With the settings you can create all sorts of views of the overlay, much more then you could do with EMC 7/7.5

 

As I said perhaps I don't quite understand what it is you want to do. Maybe a more detailed example (screenshot ?) would help.

 

Thanks for the reply - I'll need to put together screenshots, and perhaps a video, later today. If anyone wants to see what's needed here, try filming a clip of yourself sitting on the left side of a couch, and then, without moving the camera, a clip of yourself sitting on the right side. Now, make the first clip your primary video, and overlay the second clip. Now, crop out the left half of the overlay, so that you appear to be sitting next to yourself.

 

This type of overlay manipulation used to be trivially simple using EMC 7. In Creator 2011, it appears to be impossible. So far, the workaround I've found is to first edit the clip that's going to be overlaid ... over a plain black color image as the primary clip, place the desired overlay, move it so that the section I want to zoom in on is in the position I need it, output that modified overlay clip, then start the actual production and use the repositioned working overlay clip as an overlay ... with the overlay recentered in this way, the new Creator 2011 zoom/size features can then do the job.

 

To reiterate ... what used to be a simple right-drag feature, moving the active, visible region of an overlay (without moving the overlay itself, and so, effectively cropping it), is no longer possible, and if anyone's got either a way to do this, a better workaround, or info on the last version of EMC/Creator that supported the feature, I'll be mighty grateful.

[bimicher]

Just bought Creator 2011 because my six year old Easy Media Creator 7 application just can't keep up with current file formats, e.g. the MP4 files of my Samsung camcorder.

 

Just set up a new Windows 7 system, bought and installed a copy of Creator 2011.

 

Because the most important feature for my work with multiple cameras is the overlay feature, I was happy to see that C2011 supports multiple overlays.

 

Until I tried to move the active frame, or mask, of an overlaid video clip.

 

In VideoWave 7, this was as easy as right-clicking the clip, choosing "Edit", then "Overlay", then right-clicking the frame in the preview, and dragging it (which caused the overlay frame to move, but not the overlaid clip, effectively cropping it). Brilliant, and endlessly useful if you're using multiple shots, multiple angles, or even a clip overlaid by itself.

 

But in VideoWave / Creator 2011, the only Edit option in the context menu is Edit Native Audio.

 

Of course, you can click the overlay clip, or it's preview frame, to bring up the "Settings" pane to manually position, zoom, etc ... but these options don't include the option to keep the overlay zoom and position the same, while moving it's frame. If the old "Overlay Width" option was still there, I could work around these limitations ... no it's not. (The current "Width" control actually reduces the width of the image, squeezing or expanding the image, not changing it's frame) You can crop, but not with the versatility that freely moving the active frame allows.

 

(If you've got a copy of the older app, and want to see the kind of edit I'm looking for, open VideoWave, add a clip, add a second clip as an overlay, right-click the overlay, click "Edit", then "Overlay", and right-drag the image of the overlay - you'll see the image doesn't move, and you've got a perfect split-screen. I know there's other ways to split-screen - this is just an example.)

 

Anyone know if there's still a way to move (and thereby crop) the active region of an overlay?

 

Or, if this feature's been removed, do you know the last version of EMC/Creator that had the capability?

 

(Yes, it really is that crucially important for the work I do!)

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Maybe I don't quite understand what you are describing but I believe what you want can easily be done in C2011, at least for your example.

 

After adding the overlay, select the overlay in the overlay track, then you simply move the mouse over the overlay in the preview window and while pressing the left mouse you can move the overlay around within the window. Using the corners of the overlay you can adjust the overlay size ,etc.

 

With the settings you can create all sorts of views of the overlay, much more then you could do with EMC 7/7.5

 

As I said perhaps I don't quite understand what it is you want to do. Maybe a more detailed example (screenshot ?) would help.