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ray12

Nikon Mov Files Versus H.264/mpeg-4

Question

I created some video files (MOV) with my new Nikon D5100. It creates very nice video. Roxio plays these files with no problems, unlike Premiere which for some reason has some difficulty with them. When I put them together in Roxio VideoWave and used the "same as original" export settings, it created a mp4 video file. It doesn't have the same exact settings as the Nikon MOV video file. The frame width and Frame height are the same (1920x1080) and same frame rate (29 frames/second. It does change the bit rate from 2306kbps to 128kps and the data rate from 3216kpb to 1421 kbps. The total birate gets changed from 34467 kbps to 14339 kbps. The file size from the original files went from 826mb to 511mb. I was surprised that a mpeg2 created file was smaller than the mp4 file. I am not really sure what all this means. I am wondering why it doesn't create the same as the orginal when it knows what the original is? I would like not to lose anything. I find all these video files very diffcicult to understand. It used to be simple; you had avi and mpeg2 files for the most part to deal with. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

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No it really was not as simple as mpeg2 & AVI, the complexity was always there but you had to look ;)

 

The "container" (AVI, WMV, mpeg, MOV, etc.) is really of no relavance... it is the dimension, frame rate and encoding rate that determine the file size. (compression algorithms play a small part here too)

 

I 'suspect' there are 2 issues with the Recording Rates.One is that, for now, you cannot pack enough computing horsepower into a handheld to reduce the image more AND keep up with the speed limitations of an SD Card. Two, it could also be that the recording quality is intended to meet commercial rates.

 

Roxio's creator line is for Home use or limited Commercial uses. Hence why pound away for hours on end to produce a 'quality' than no DVD or BD Player can utilize? :huh:

 

A 2 hour commercial movie comes to a theater on 2 or 3 HDDs! It takes 30 minutes to an hour to plug those drives into the Projector Server and transfer the movie over, for each one!

 

Granted the picture dimensions are bigger but it is also powering a sound system that would buy a big house in the country and fill its' 3 car garage :lol:

 

So Yes, you are losing some quality but unless you own commercial grade equipment, you will never know...

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Yes. I was looking at that way. But I just wanted to keep my original quality as I am editing. Eventually, you convert it for various reasons. There clearly is a difference between my original "MOV" to the conversion of "mp4" when you compare them side by side even in VideoWave. The original "MOV" file is slightly brighter and clearer. There is quite a lot of reduction in the video bit rate when it converts. I guess I don't see why it just doesn't convert it as it is supposed to do which is "same as original." Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Few programs even deals with this highly compressed MOV video file. I tried other conversions but it is just a hit and miss. MPEG-2 high def 1080p increases the video data rates from 20478 to 2500. The frame rate and frame width/height is the same but there is no improvement in quality for some odd reason. I have heard that you should at least keep your frame rate and frame width/ height consistent during your editing.

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In all this worrying about conversion, I have a bigger problem, I just noticed that the sound cuts on and off during a converted mp4 (same as original) and mpeg2 file in VideoWave. This is not good. I wonder why this is happening? All this makes we miss my old very large AVI files which I never had problems with from my Digital 8 camera. I am at a loss now of what to convert it to in Roxio to keep it consistent. I am forced to resort having to converted via another program first. I downloaded this "any converter" which is basically free for conversions but you have options of paying for more advanced features which are necessary for me. It does work with Roxio. I used a custom mp4 conversion. I put it in VideoWave and when I used "same as original" export all the sound played and the quality was decent.

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The issue is well known. There is something in the mov files from digital cameras used as camcorders that causes Roxio to screw up. The problem is the audio is not play correctly; it is usually it is sped up and finishes in about 1/2 the time of the video. The way around it is to convert the mov files to mpg2 HD. There are several good free video converters. I use "Any Video Converter".

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Any Converter doesn't have an option to convert to "mpg2HD" that I see. Custom mp4 movie seems the only option for me in "Any converter".

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Any Converter doesn't have an option to convert to "mpg2HD" that I see. Custom mp4 movie seems the only option for me in "Any converter".

 

Yes it does, just click to the file type and a drop down will magically appear ! :P

 

Sorry I was using an old version. Select AVCHD for the resolution you want.

Edited by sknis

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Using the exact same MOV file segment, this AVCHD creates only a 11.6mb file size. Compared to the original MOV file which is 92mb. And the Custom mp4 movie file (from Any Converter) creates a 50mb file. The actual properties of the AVCHD is similar to the MOV file but I can't help thinking how much it compressed the MOV file. I wish I could understand what all this means. I can't say I am very impressed with the AVCHD file. I find the custom mp4 looks better. There has to be more to it than the raw specs. This AVCHD conversion would not hold up if blown up to a very large size. This is such a pain. It's like they created this MOV file with no easy way to work with it. My son uses Premiere with the MOV file which Premiere doesn't really like too much either but workable but to me Premiere is overkill for what I do. VIdeoWave is all I need. I just string out the video files together and create a DVD with little effects, just using the frames that are good. I will have to continue to experiment and just do the best I can for now. Hopefully, the next Roxio version 2013 does a better job of dealing with this Nikon MOV file.

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The next version is already out but just recently. It is Creator NXT. I doubt that there would be a fix in it because the work around does work for most people.

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Why have to workaround and have to convert them using another program? You use your MOV files and put them together using VideoWave. Those MOV video files are used alot with DSLR cameras and I gather some point and shot are using them too. I hope Roxio is aware of this sound problem. If other programs can do it correctly, why not Roxio? It would be nice to know if they corrected the problem. Up to this MOV problem, 2012 has worked pretty well for me. I have not cared for any versions after Roxio Creator 9 till 2012. Always one thing or another problem. Creator NXT. Odd name. Nikon calls its programs NX: NX2 and Capture NX2. Hope it's a good sign . thanks for your input.

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You will not get any argument from me. There are several bugs that Roxio/Corel has not addressed over the years. Roxio/Corel is aware of the audio issue and the others.

 

I don't think that Roxio Corel wanted the next version to be 2013; perhaps someone is superstitious :lol:

 

BTW, I gave my daughter in law the same camera to take pictures and videos of her one year old daughter. She has taken tons of pictures but I have not seen any video. I own a D80 which I bought a couple of months before Nikon added video capability. :unsure:

 

Also I have used another video editing program (name withheld) and it had the same problem. Some people were good enough to upload a short video (5 seconds or so) so that we could play with it. Can you do that so we can play with it in NXT?

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Ray: It is an interesting problem...

 

Let me see if I can get a few short clips from my Nephew and play with them a little. (actually he did give me some and I somehow managed to lose them :huh: )

 

I'll post my results as soon as I can ;)

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I will still try the Nikon samples when I can, but puttering around I did reproduce some interesting results from Video Wave.

 

Starting with a Source file I created using your spec, I did an Export As ~ Same As and got a resulting file with only a very small difference in bit rates and the resulting file size...

 

I then ran the same file through but this time started with the wrong project size (4:3) and the results were greater, but not as drastic as you indicated???

 

 

 

post-39730-0-23103100-1347711851_thumb.jpg

post-39730-0-40813100-1347711850_thumb.jpg

post-39730-0-24542800-1347711849_thumb.jpg

 

It is something for you to look into, you must ensure you start with a 16:9 Project in VideoWave, it is not automatic... Nor can it be changed once it is started ;)

 

Give that a try and see what happens for you.

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I don't think that Roxio Corel wanted the next version to be 2013; perhaps someone is superstitious :lol:

 

 

Not these guys! True Image™ 2013 by Acronis

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Why have to workaround and have to convert them using another program? You use your MOV files and put them together using VideoWave. Those MOV video files are used alot with DSLR cameras and I gather some point and shot are using them too. I hope Roxio is aware of this sound problem. If other programs can do it correctly, why not Roxio? It would be nice to know if they corrected the problem. Up to this MOV problem, 2012 has worked pretty well for me. I have not cared for any versions after Roxio Creator 9 till 2012. Always one thing or another problem. Creator NXT. Odd name. Nikon calls its programs NX: NX2 and Capture NX2. Hope it's a good sign . thanks for your input.

 

I have the same Nikon D5100 camera, and the sound problem is there in Creator 2011 and Creator 2012. It works perfectly in Creator 2010.

 

I do not know about Creator NXT, because I have not loaded it yet.

 

Aside: Have you looked at Nikon's new 18mm-300mm lens? I got it a little over a week ago, and it is fantastic! It is somewhat expensive, though.

 

I will probably sell my 18mm-200mm and 70mm-300mm lenses.

Edited by grandpabruce

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A five second clip wouldn't be enough, since the sound does come through off and on. The sound comes through in the first 25 seconds and then it starts to cut off and comes back on sporadically. I did notice on reading the specifications of the NXT that it imports MOV but says nothing about exporting to MOV. To me that is part of the problem. You get this fantastic MOV video file but I have not seen any file formats that comes close to converting it as nice. All of them compresses it even further,degrading the original quality. I would like to see it retain it's original quality as I am editing. Although, it would be a start if Roxio could converted it correctly. I guess this will just be one of those ongoing problems that you will have to find a way around it. It's odd, Canon and Nikon comes out with this format, yet they themselves do not provide any way to deal with it. Premiere isn't even up on this format.

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A five second clip wouldn't be enough, since the sound does come through off and on. The sound comes through in the first 25 seconds and then it starts to cut off and comes back on sporadically. I did notice on reading the specifications of the NXT that it imports MOV but says nothing about exporting to MOV. To me that is part of the problem. You get this fantastic MOV video file but I have not seen any file formats that comes close to converting it as nice. All of them compresses it even further,degrading the original quality. I would like to see it retain it's original quality as I am editing. Although, it would be a start if Roxio could converted it correctly. I guess this will just be one of those ongoing problems that you will have to find a way around it. It's odd, Canon and Nikon comes out with this format, yet they themselves do not provide any way to deal with it. Premiere isn't even up on this format.

 

Could you upload a sample file to a free web sharing site such as "Up4Down" or "4Shared"? That way we could play around with it and all start from the "same page".

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I did upload a sample file to 4shared.com. How do I make it accessible to anyone who wants to download it?

 

You simply insert a link to the uploaded file on 4shared.com in a post.

Edited by myguggi

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